How to react when your child corrects you about someone's pronouns?

[Thirtyfiveandcounting]

My dd is 12 & so far has had a very sheltered life. I am extremely GC & she has never asked about trans or non binary & does not have a phone . Anyways she had a sleepover with a friend in Sun night, she came home & was talking about a particular signed, I said he's a great singer & she said very crossly "they, he's non binary".. I didn't know how to react so I just said "that's me corrected!" to which she replied "yes it is" 😭 She said the girls mother then showed them a video of this singers new music video..
I think I should be blasé & not push my opinion which might push her into rejecting me? I don't want to get this wrong.

I disagree with this totally. I teenagers are crying out for boundaraies. The fact that so many parents do so much listening and understanding and thinking both ways about stuff is why we have a sea of 18-25 year olds suffering anxiety. Kids mouth off but deep down they want their parents to KNOW stuff, they need the secure boundaries (there's nothing to do their pre-programmed kicking off about if there are no boundaries). Secure boundaries mean security, mean more stable adults.

We've never had so many 'understanding parents' and some many young people with mental health issues. There is a connection. I think we've been weak. We've let them down.

And specifically on gender, many of the kids lecturing their parents deep down know it is not right. They do not have the luxuary of being GC at school. To hear their parents then either lie or equivocate about their own beliefs in biological sex must be really undermining of the child's own grasp on reality.

One question I put to mine was name me a trans or non-binary person at your school who is not gay, from a conservative religious background, or who has parents who are openly homophobic. I could see the brain judder to halt behind her eyes as a bit of daylight crept in then she leapt on a name - E she said. E is in and out of hospital for anorexia. When I pointed this out and that poor E had a co-morbidity and there was no-one who's feelings could not be accounted for by other things, she stopped asking me to use the trans kids pronouns. She knew I knew and that I knew she knew that I knew. A secure boundary. Even though she was in a huff about it. Parents have to put up with kids being in a huff.

Any cases I have read are clearly predatory males pretending to be trans to fit their defence.

Looking forward to you starting another thread (so as not to derail this one) on how women and girls tell the difference?

I genuinely don't get how you can't join the dots there @Marblessolveeverything

So you've said it's fine for a man to say he's a woman if he wants, and thus get in to women's spaces if he wants... and you can't see how this has led to nefarious males now getting in to women's spaces to commit crimes. Seriously?!?

Yes, I think it's often overlooked that, in declaring yourself to be non-binary, you are clearly differentiating yourself from 'the masses'.

You are saying that everybody else who isn't non-binary - the vast, vast majority of people - is a boring identikit male or female stereotype; but YOU are special and interesting.

Claiming to be non-binary is actually an inherently insulting thing to do - unless you somehow believe that everybody is NB, except that most people don't acknowledge it.

But if everybody is NB, then it just demonstrates how meaningless it all is - it's like the equivalent of marking every single email as top priority or selling priority boarding passes to every single passenger.

I would explain that non-binary can only refer to gender, not sex, and he is the right pronoun for a male person.

Any cases I have read are clearly predatory males pretending to be trans to fit their defence

Class. Absolute class.
Now, could you please explain, in clear terms, how women and girls (or anyone else for that matter) can tell who these pretenders are before they predate? Thanks ever so.

I'd be more than a little testy with a 12 year old who "corrected" me about pronoun use about a third person!
Please can we have some adults back in the room, the 12 year old is a child who needs a parent, not a friend.

@arethereanyleftatall it is amazing how you can read pure fiction from my posts. Interesting skill "Join the dots" in your scenario my driving to the shop is a formula one international race win!

The girl referred to a non binary adult. End of.

Stop escalating that to full on fucking physical attack. Honestly it is so clear why people just ignore posts like these, because there is literally a lack of complete critical analysis on the part of some posters

Why can't you address the issue which is a parent concerned on different opinions

If this is the singer that I suspect it is, they have previously come out as gay (which they are, a gay male) and then decided they were non-binary.
Begs the question of what they will come out as next, and whether anyone else has to give it any credence. But politeness etc if you're face to face. If not, meh.

I'm so glad my two left school before all this wankery started.

I would talk about how identity is not the same as reality. Kids are pushing back, my gay teenage ds is becoming as GC as me

To be honest I’d just leave it. We all know the first thing we do when someone says they are NB is work out if they are male or female - it’s just how our brains work.

Where did I say that a girl should know? Can you please show me the text because it seems you are reading some piece of fiction as opposed to my posts

You said: "Any cases I have read are clearly predatory males pretending to be trans to fit their defence."

How do women and girls tell the difference between males who are not a threat and those who are?

OP, are you looking for advice on how to engage in a discussion about your views or on how to avoid a discussion? If the latter, you can just say “ah, I didn’t know that- thanks.”

If the former, you could always try something like “ah- some people feel a bit uncomfortable using different pronouns for people who identify as non-binary” and then explain your views simply and politely. We’re all so used to having antagonistic discussions online that it’s tempting to fall into the same pattern but I’d really try to avoid that. FWIW I’ve learned a lot about gender identity from talking to my teen DD, much more than I’ve learned online. Having an open chat in which you each assume the other is in good faith, intelligent and well-intentioned can really help on both sides.

The only singer I would ever refer to as 'they' is Jedward.

She's 12
You tell her not to speak to you like that and that you don't believe that one person can be a they and that people can't change sex and that there is nothing offensive about one's biological sex.

Say we're all non binary as gender is only stereotyping

I'd have a chat with her - explain your pov. She's free to have her own opinion. Why do you think she would reject you? Might open up an interesting discussion.

For the first time this came up, I said, 'Oh, right, and what does that mean in practical terms?'

DS ummed and ahhed a bit and then said it just meant 'use they'.

Where did I say a girl or woman would know? I did not please read more carefully.

In court cases post judgement and conviction it has been reported that in some cases the person convicted has adopted a ruse.

Again at no time did I ever infer nor state otherwise.

Personally I'd go for something like "Lots of people believe that everyone has a gender identity. Lots of people don't. Personally I don't, so I don't use preferred pronouns. But I could make an effort to use no pronouns at all and just use the singers name.. What do you think?".

Hopefully your daughter will be open to exploring your "GC" views with you gradually as the subject comes up. Women's sports is a great one, both in talking about fantastic sporting achievements from women (Lionesses, Wimbledon greats, prominent Olympians etc) and unfairness e.g. Lia Thomas.

It's a tricky age and like you say, she'll be heavily influenced by what her friends say. Unfortunately children are still being bombarded by lots of outside influences that pull them towards the idea that everyone has a gender identity and that it's really important to validate this. This pseudo-religious thinking isn't going to go away any time soon, now that Labour have put two believers in to key positions (Phillipson and Dodds). Unfortunately, the believers see it as fact and see those of us that don't believe as dinosaurs and Karens etc. 🤦‍♀️

You’re really quite invested in trying to pressure the OP and scare her into the idea that her child will lose regard for her, aren’t you?

People can chose to be addressed as they wish but I won't buy into their ideology and will use the name they were given and the pronoun attributed to their sex.

Yeah some people are very invested in pushing this nonsense.

Another regular one is ‘if you don’t affirm your child will kill thrmselves’

Black mail is a useful tool for these people

Thanks for all the advice, I knew this day was going to come one day, it seems that age have a lable for everything eg Taylor swift fans Swifties, my 3 dds are very invested in everything "Swiftie" 😒 as elle models go there could be a lot worse I guess.