How to react when your child corrects you about someone's pronouns?

[Thirtyfiveandcounting]

My dd is 12 & so far has had a very sheltered life. I am extremely GC & she has never asked about trans or non binary & does not have a phone . Anyways she had a sleepover with a friend in Sun night, she came home & was talking about a particular signed, I said he's a great singer & she said very crossly "they, he's non binary".. I didn't know how to react so I just said "that's me corrected!" to which she replied "yes it is" 😭 She said the girls mother then showed them a video of this singers new music video..
I think I should be blasé & not push my opinion which might push her into rejecting me? I don't want to get this wrong.

So much so. And to be 'educated' as to the Right Side of History is to know that it can change in a heartbeat, or at the very least, is subject to ebb and flow.

The tide's certainly ebbing in the wake of the Cass report. We haven't seen the start of it yet. And it's not an outlandish prediction that looming on the horizon is one very large, precedent-changing, (likely collective) legal action against the Tavistock.

If we're going for 'alternative' identities, personally I prefer the Monster Raving Loonies. Not to mention Count Binface. (Who may identify as being 5,900 years old but is not under any delusion that he actually harks from before the common era).

Unlike the insipid gender ideologists, at least they have a sense of humour and are politically literate.

👏

I'm always tempted with this sort of thing to say that I find other parts of language cisheteronormative and triggering have therefore decided that it is offensive for me for people to use the word 'it' in speech when around me but should substitute erm... that word... with 'bean' when speaking to or about me. So as not to trigger my deep psychological antipathy to that word.

It's a demand that does not recognise normal English and does not consider the burden being placed on others by doing so, nor the imposition of a contested belief system.

I see no reason why my demand is any different. It's entirely plausible someone could be triggered by ANY word in the English language. Do we have to accommodate everyone?

And it's impossible to know someone's inner gender identity by looking, whereas sex is obvious.

It's coercive control because it sets up an 'if you don't behave according to my completely unfathomable inner feelings you're a bigot' abusive dynamic.

My prounouns are viper/witch for anyone who believes in GI. For those who don't, they can use normal English and I won't denounce them as a bigot, I'm fine with that.

With my daughter (who is 17 now, so older than yours), I have always entered into a conversation and told her exactly what I think, whilst making it clear she can make up her own mind about what she thinks. I also question things, so if she tells me someone is non-binary, I'll ask her what that means. If she says ( as she did when she was younger) it means someone isn't a boy or girl, I would always correct that and say they might feel like they aren't , but they are and that lots of people don't conform to gender stereotypes, including us.
When she told me that a friend of hers is a boy who used to be a girl, I told her factually that isn't possible and her friend is a girl who wishes she was a boy and wants to be treated like a boy. Big difference.
It's very hard for children and young people - it is social suicide not to go along with gender ideology beliefs, so most will do so, but privately they don't all believe it, not by a long way.
I find religion is a useful analogy- you should accept other people's beliefs, but are under no obligation to believe them yourself. If you are a Christian family, then presumably this will be a familiar notion for your daughter?

Yes!

As an alternative to spoiling my ballot or voting for a sensible candidate (I did the latter in the end), this could have been a great alternative.

The MRL's manifesto pledge to solve identity theft by naming everyone Chris was genius.

Sadly Anneliese Dodds probably thinks allowing everyone to have the right to be a woman a la Monty Python's Loretta is the sensible version of this 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I've posted this on a different thread but it's so good, it warrants posting here too:

I didn't know how to react so I just said I "that's me corrected!" to which she replied "yes it is"

If I'd spoken to either parent like that there's a good chance I'd have found myself on my arse. While I appreciate that this approach is unfashionable I do wonder when and how it became ok for kids to lecture parents.

I fondly remember a Daily Mash headline that went something like "Kids to get told to sit down, shut up and remember who pays the fucking bills".

Let music help you on this one.

Show her Sweet Dreams video and anything with Boy George in it. Show her that singer's were gender non conforming decades before the notion of non binary existed - and that these singer's (and basically anyone gender bending back then) haven't come out as non binary now and ask why you think that is?

The answer being, it's a fad, as people get older they become more comfortable with themselves.

It's a metaphor.

Except Boy George is ironically very anti-gc these days!

Or any number of New Romantics like Steve Strange, Spandau Ballet, etc. All wearing foundation, eyeliner, lipstick, whatever - and still men. They were referred to as ‘gender benders’ by the press - because they took the ridiculous gender stereotypes and broke them.

Now, the stereotypes we thought had been broken have been resurrected and men wearing make up must mean they’re NB; women like Grace Jones, with short hair and a no nonsense strength about them must be NB or trans. It’s all so arse-achingly regressive.

Yeah it's very ironic isn't it. I imagine from the almost universal silence from 70s/80s/90s musicians that there is a lot of unsaid gender criticism.

Otherwise they'd all be going, 'yes, that's me! Finally'.

If I woke up as a man tomorrow, my first thought would not be "boohoo but I'm a laydee."

It would be "how the hell did this happen?"

Sam Smith is a Madonna copying twerp. If we are going to judge by the standards women are held to, we'd be fair to say needs to lose a few pies and to dress more appropriately. This is how we know he's a bloke cos we get an eye roll rather than a multiple accolades and a bunch of awards rather than career ending criticism

Like Izzard and the Zara dress that a member of the Spanish royal family wore (and she loves amazing).

He is old about enough to be her dad and looked like a bag of compost - and the papers were bitching about a 40 something old woman being mutton for wearing a short dress whilst he looked ‘amazing’.

Sheesh.

Ffs 😂 😂 😂 😂

Indulging in a fantasy doesn't make you any more respectful of others.

😂😂😂

'Correct' would imply you called a boy a girl. Because it's sex based.

DS has a 'non bio' friend from school. I don't refer to him in the third person when he is there. His sex is male, he has a girlfriend and 'dresses', acts, and has the hobbies of a 'male'.

He was at school with a trans teen in the year above that he was pally with (boy who declared himself a girl in 6th form when girls were able to join the school). When he told me the convo went:

Does he use the girls loos, changing rooms or dorms (they have borders)? No.

Does he wear the girls uniform (short skit and blouse) or wear the 'unisex' version of suit trousers and a jumper? Trousers, same as he always has.

Does he go around browbeating everyone about his special 'identity'? No he's cool and never mentions it, it's the 'rainbow allies' who go about bullying people and trying to get attention.

He has now left school, must be in 3rd year of uni now - and doesn't say he's a woman anymore.

Like the OP, I'm a practising Christian. It's considered a sin to lie. It is also a sin, and the opposite of being loving, to encourage someone down a self-destructive path.

Funny, isn't it, how "be tolerant" has such a hierarchy? We have to be tolerant of your beliefs but ours can be mocked and misinterpreted without much social consequence.

Shrug, tut, eyebrow raise. Grin. Change subject like generations and generations of adults in decades past when faced with childish whims. You don't need to explain.

Thanks! I find it fascinating seeing the double standards that are so often on display - so I try to spot them in myself, where it's harder to see them. Through my church, I have friendships and contact with people with a very different outlook on sex and gender. That's challenging. As I know something of their personal struggles, I am cautious about how I express my frustration with gender identity theory, and I am sure that they are also being cautious as they are aware of how much I am struggling with my son's changing viewpoint and expression.

I can see how people looking at churches from the outside can have an impression that everyone within the church has an identical position on everything, and that it is a fundamentalist or at least a very conservative one, but that is far from the truth. In my church we have a very broad range of political and faith understanding, and many of us are well aware that our views are not fixed. But we are a pretty caring bunch, and I have received understanding and support from people who disagree with me. They don't show their concern by telling me what I want to hear, but they do listen to my experiences and they ask how we are getting on with our family rift.

Like many others, church members are trying to balance kindness and truth, and to find ways of expressing truth firmly but not nastily. Of course, we cannot control how other people perceive that.

yes, I've come across this with people whose first language is not english and its very confusing....if they are telling a story involving several people and then start using pronouns you never know who did what...
'I went to see my aunt and uncle, and while she was cooking in the kitchen he came to me and said you should help him with the cooking but she said...'
its almost as though accurate pronouns were useful in conveying precise meanings