Adult Human Female postbox topper "against the spirit of postbox toppers"

[Topperfan]

say Labour councillors
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/beeston-postbox-topper-claiming-women-9319330

(no it wasn't me, I can't knit! 😁)

Good old Labour. Die hard misogynists strike again.

The fact that the words "woman: adult human female" count as 'political messaging' has got to be the craziest thing that's happened in my lifetime.

A definition of 50% of the population is considered divisive. How did we get here?

This. ☝

I wonder if having a topper changes a post box’s identity, like the way a man might use a wearing a dress to signal that they identify as a woman.

If so what might the post box be identifying as?

So you’d have no objections to a topper that said “Transwomen are women”?

I agree, it's aggressive. It's ok to talk about these things but that is targeting trans people just going about their day posting a letter

Our local post box is covered in political stickers of all sorts.

I am surprised that some people
believe that something like this is not appropriate. Maybe tell all the other groups.

And while you are telling them, maybe telling the councils that turning road crossings into political messages is not appropriate either and sticking to the black and white ones actually is better for inclusion as it includes the many visually impaired people too who need that crossing to remain high contrast black and white.

@SlovenlyOldSlut I think people would disagree with the message. But crucially would not expect it to be summarily removed and destroyed.

Personally I wouldn't remove or expect anyone in local govt to remove a transgender flag topper, or a "TWAW" topper, in the same way that I'd expect a suffragette coloured topper with Adult Human Female on it to be left well alone.

Where did I say I had no objection to the words Adult Human Female?

I was discussing whether it was okay to put political statements out in public. You assumed my beliefs all on your own.

They just can't help overwriting women's (sex based meaning) voices can they? Anything women say about ourselves must be desecrated, erased.

It's not enough to say "I disagree with what these women say", they have to erase that it was ever said.

It's not enough to somehow get the names for the two sexes, a fundamental fact of everyone's life and the basis for asymetric physical and social power and resulting differences in life opportunities to the detriment of those of us that happen to be female, redefined from sonething that clearly, objectively exists and has borne those names through hundreds of years of art, stories, history and laws to accomodate their dull and sexist idea that they can't be who they are under the true name of their sex, they also have to deny us a new name to take away the language to speak of being ourselves.

Essence of airmail?

And you don't think the trans flag, which stands for sexism and the marginalisation of female voices, history and experiences, which is worn proudly by people glorifying in their power to shut women (the original lot) up, is also agressive? You don't think that many women feel that little bit less safe, that little bit less confident of fair treatment, when they see it?

Only if you think that people who state they are trans cannot co-exist with women. In which case trans rights are an existential threat to women.

No I just don't agree with you that that's happening

Totally @FlirtsWithRhinos

When I see rainbow flags at the hospital (note: when, not if) my heart sinks.

I know I'm in the presence of people who won't respect my legal right to women only spaces, intimate care, GC beliefs and are likely to misrepresent the law.

It doesn't exactly feel safe and welcoming (which is sad because 20 years ago I'd see a rainbow flag and think 'gay people are welcome here, that's nice' - but it doesn't mean that any more).

But women are are supposed to put up with this discomfort that many of us feel in the presence of rainbow flags, lanyards, etc.

And once again it's one rule for one group, another for the second class citizens (women). Our discomfort is brushed aside. Our making a similarly political statement is apparently 'unacceptable'.

We aren't allowed an equivalent voice.

Really? You've genuinely not seen the footage of agressive trans rights activists trying to break through barriers to get to women who disagree with them at multiple events? The "decapitate TERFs" sign? You aren't aware of the women being unfairly dismissed and having to crowd fund tribunals to establish basic rights?

I can tell you with 100% certainty some women see the trans flag as anything but welcoming and progressive, they see it as regressive, sexist and misogynistic, a sign that their voices are only welcome if they say the right things not the true things. I know this because I am one of them.

I think women are unjustly treated but it's all being focused into this one issue

I live near to where this was done. So glad to see it! Kudos! I want to vote Labour and I will, but Broxtowe Labour's response was very off-putting.

It's not all being focused on this one issue, but if you ignore this one issue, if you let the lie that women are different to men because we think differently, that certain types of mind can be so incompatible with being a woman or being a man that you literally are not one, if you let that lie stand, your ability to talk about all the other issues, to identify, analyse, strategise, politicise and I hope defang those other issues is so much weaker.

Sex does matter to our life outcomes. Maybe it shouldn't but here and now it does. And women need both the language to explain that and the right and stage to say it.

IRL I mentor young women. I do it
becase I understand how it is to be them, the boil-a-frog shit you don't realise is holding you back until it's too late, the need for someone to tell you it's ok to be clear about what you want and ok to say no if the deal on offer is all about benefitting someone else not you.

I have asked myself often what I will do if I'm asked to mentor a trans woman as a woman. I'm still not sure. Mentor as a young man, sharing our different perspectives, sure. But how does my life as a woman, my experiences and challenges, help someone whose conception of womanhood is so far from mine that nothing translates?

If I say no will my reasons be heard and respected, or will I be told it's not my call to make?

If you think about it, if they are women, they have perhaps one of the most challenging life experiences it is possible for a woman to have

Sure - but then woman is just a word.

I support people who deal with the shit that society throws at the female-bodied. I have the experiences I have and sharing those is valuable and empowering to people who have similar experiences because it helps them see patterns and make sense of situations they find themselves in.

Changing the word "woman" to mean something different like it's some sort of gotcha is meaningless - it doesn't change my experiences or the expereinces of the people I support one iota. That's my point - changing the words does f-all to change anyting for actual women other than make it harder to tell our stories, understand the causes and support each other to surpass them.

When I saw that replacement topper I thought of the game GO, in which counters are placed on a board to claim territory, as that's what the TRA has done. It is an aggressive move as the first was not. It is also not in the spirit and should be removed, or if the council won't do that, crowned with flowers in women's suffrage colours.

Are you seriously saying that males who believe they are women are experiencing one of the most challenging life experiences possible for a woman to have? Or have I got that wrong?

Because if you are saying that male who believe they are women are perhaps experiencing one of the most challenging life experiences for a woman to have I find your claim to be most surprising.

They are male people with a philosophical belief that their experiences are those of female people.

There is no way that those male people can be experiencing life as a female person as that requires a female person to navigate life with a female body. A male person can only ever experience life with a body that has been modified to resemble a female body in some ways, but that is not female at all. Therefore, all the 'challenging life experiences' that a female experiences, is not the same experiences that a male person experiences.

They might believe that outside of those body modifications, they are experiencing what a female person experiences, but only because they have a sexist view of how female people live. That female people experience life in stereotypical ways. A male person does not experience society's still persistent negative sexist discrimination that female people experience from birth (or even before birth). They have not 'lived' that discrimination so it does not shape their lives.

So, no. It this is what you meant, there is no 'if they are women' and I think it could be said that to say they have perhaps one of the most challenging life experiences it is possible for a woman to have is rather misogynistic. I hope that I have misunderstood. Because if so, I apologise.

I've been thinking about this for a few years, and I really don't know if they are in a sense or not, because I think we can't really know how other people feel. Transwomen have told us, that they just always felt like they were a woman, and it's hard to understand but if you take it at face value it could be possible that in some way they just are, and they just are in the wrong body somehow.

As in maybe we need to take crude bodies out of it to understand and entertain the possibility that a woman can be something else, like an essence. I haven't really made my mind up about this but I've always had this feeling about it.

I think the major inequity women face is that having children affects our incomes unfairly compared to men, and transwomen aren't having this problem but I suspect they are also a group that suffers the same result

You can't "feel" like a woman. You can only feel like yourself. A woman is not a feeling, not an abstract concept but a biological being.