Rape and Hamas and the denial of rape.

[ThereAreNoSloesOnThere]

There have been a few threads on FWR about this before. I have lurked. We knew and know this is and was happening yet apparently it's okay if it is is happening to Jewish women or Israeli women.

I have long had a horrifying suspicion that the reason why so many of the women and girl hostages have continued to be held is until they are released with the evidential products of their rapes- the babies.

I fail completely to understand how this is being brushed aside and ignored.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13447359/Hamas-terrorists-taunt-young-Israeli-women-threat-rape-footage.html

The OP was all about how this is being "ignored".

It certainly isn't. Most mainstream news reports refer to the hostages, and have interviews with members of hostage families if they are visiting the UK.

But whatever each of us feels about what has or is happening to the women who are kidnapped at least have the decency to respect the hostages families.

They are NOT indulging in publicly conjuring up images of the daughters, sisters, aunts being sexually abused.

What would make you think it is okay for you to disrespect these women in this way.

If you actually followed the news instead of being obsessed by idiot students and some left extremists, you would know that on the advice of women who provide support services for women in Israel who have been raped, many of the released hostages are now in a special facility where they can receive support and option to talk when and if they want to.

Nobody has forgotten.

They are respecting the women concerned and reporting what they say on the occasions that they have gone public. Not indulging in speculation.

If you are actually interested in these women, you can easily do an internet search and see what those who have been released have said.

I think the whole premise of this thread is disrespectful and too much about virtue signalling and not acknowledging what the women themselves and their families have said and requested.

I am sure, because there was such a thread, that if you want to talk about the sheer stupidity of a lot of student politics, not only in universities but on marches, many would join in. You dont need to exploit these women to do this. It would be more sisterly to wait and show respect to these women by giving them the right to instigate when and if there public comment about whatever violence they have experienced.

This footage was released by these young girls families was it not?
The Sandberg documentary was done with co-operation of survivors.
Precisely because there were vociferous denials and justifications about that day, and still are.

If they want to use their voices who am I if I silence them?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13451089/The-father-son-Hamas-rapists-Terrorists-going-house-house-carrying-sex-attacks-murder-One-screamed-cried-father-raped-did-cousin-did-father-killed-her.html

From the Associated Press: How 2 debunked accounts of sexual violence on Oct. 7 fueled a global dispute over Israel-Hamas war

"it took ZAKA months to acknowledge the accounts were wrong, allowing them to proliferate. And the fallout from the debunked accounts shows how the topic of sexual violence has been used to further political agendas.”

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-sexual-violence-zaka-ca7905bf9520b1e646f86d72cdf03244

Two?

Have you watched the Sandberg documentary?
Are you suggesting the film of the young girls taken is a fake?
I believe that was the official hamas line in the BBC article about it.

The footage was released by the families to pressure the Israeli government to get back to negotiating their release because they observed that their daughters had been largely forgotten about and their lives put at additional risk by the Israeli PM’s withdrawing the negotiation team.

It wasn’t anything to do with denials or justifications for rape. It was released as a desperate- these are the girls you have forgotten about in this war and they deserve better than this.

@RubyRoss :
I think none of us can imagine the situation on the ground after Oct. 7. This wasnt a police crime scene, rather a slaughterhouse over many square miles.
Rape crisis groups noted early, that the priority was recovery and burial, rather than gathering evidence about every single victim. I remember an interview from Dec or Jan with a woman who said they had started to gather witness Statements, to get an idea how many rapes had taken place.
It is worth actually reading the whole article, it goes into detail why those two people gave "false" evidence.

(from the article)
"Peretz, a U.S.-based artist, said the volunteers weren’t there to do forensic work; he thought the soldiers who cleared the houses of explosives beforehand were handling that process. But the Israeli military told the AP that the army did not do any forensic work in the wake of Oct. 7.
Bukjin said police forensics teams were mostly focused on the southern cities of Sderot and Ofakim. Otmazgin said forensics workers were present in the kibbutzim but spread thin and could not follow standard — and painstaking — protocols because of the scale of the attack. He said forensics teams in the area mostly instructed ZAKA on how to help identify the bodies.
That means that bodies which might have shown signs of sexual assault could have eluded examination. Instead, they were loaded into body bags, sent to a facility to be identified and dispatched for quick burial.
“People seem to have expected that the aftermath of the attack would be like a movie, that immediately the police would come, that everything would be very sterile and very clean. People who don’t live in a war zone do not understand the horrific chaos that took place that day,” said Orit Sulitzeanu, the executive director of The Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel.
The group has spent months gathering evidence of sexual violence that occurred that day, sifting through many accounts emerging from the chaotic early days just after the attack. “Some of those stories that turned out not to be true were not lies,” she said. They were, she said, “mistakes" "

I suspect the rape deniers are also holocaust deniers. I see them.

Not necessarily also holocaust deniers. However there is a lack of understanding of violence during war and that rape happens (one reason armies have been reluctant to put women on the front line). Also, there is the narrative that the Palestinians are the good guys and the Israelis the bad guys - so the 'good guys' cannot have done these terrible things. That view is a direct result of the de-colonization narrative where all 'colonized' people are the good guys and their culture, traditions, lands and effects were stolen by wicked European colonizers. That this is a very biased view of the Age of Empire, and exclusively accuses Europeans of being colonizers, is lost on most people.

Absolutely this. This is why so many protestors at the weekly marches are repeatedly coming out to bat for the Houthis with literally no awareness about their role in enslaving women (or even caring if they do know?). And it's how the Critical Race Theory brigade justify excluding Jews from their inflexible 'oppression' narratives and frame us as the 'bad guys'.

I don't think it means the rape deniers will necessarily be holocaust deniers, although I know some on the fringes of the Left are and they certainly are on the far right. But even if they're not holocaust deniers, many are nevertheless happy to engage in a massive amount of holocaust inversion.

For those of us with mixed heritage (mine isn't Jewish) but who are assumed only to be the evil colonisers it's a double head-fuck. I can't say, "but wait, part of my heritage is x" and I have to keep that silenced.

There was a piece on D-Day on the BBC this morning. A historian talking about the Russian participation in liberating Europe from the Nazis. He talked of atrocities, burned cities, people shot. Not once did he mention rape. (Sorry can't remember where the piece was except it was on Breakfast.)

Oh for goodness sake, the denials have been endemic. The people I know in real life who support Palestine deny it!

No one is denying the that nearly anll thise other rapes you mentioned happened. I have only seen this in connection to the October 7th attacks on Israelis.

And that disgusts me.

I agree. Hadn’t even got to the end of page one before I thought, fuck me, Posters here proving OPs point.

Utterly revolting.

I felt, and still feel, exactly the same

I do. In my nice middle class lefty discussion group, I was the only one of five people discussing this who didn’t deny the rapes and atrocities happened, and the only one who condemned the attacks. This quote from one of the other five sums up their opinions ‘ The Israelis have absolutely nothing to complain about, about what happened to them on October 7th’.

It's not ok that it's happening to Israeli women. It's also not ok it's happening to Palestinian women by the IDF (yes, there's plenty of videos on SM of IDF spoofers admitting they've raped women in Gaza).

Could you post any links?

How ghastly. Did you leave?

@CroftonWillow no, can't say I save them but they come and go on X regularly so will be easy for you to find if you are on it.

Ah, I'm not on X but if true I'd have thought that would be totally devastating for the IDF and their campaign. Suprised it's not made mainstream news.

I never cease to be amazed by the number of phrases people come up with to avoid changing their minds in the face of facts and personal testimony. ‘Art washing’ is particular low in this genre of phraseology. For those who prefer slogans to thinking.

Did you leave? Or argue your point? How appalling.

Links please. That is also dreadful but does not make the rapes of Oct 7th less.