Emma Corrin and 'homophobia'

[IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine]

Emma Corrin claims to have experienced homophobia since 'coming out' as non-binary.

Emma Corrin is in a relationship with Rami Malek.

Make it make sense.

I quoted your exact words. You're dancing around claiming to be 'GC feminist' one minute then spouting TRA rhetoric the next, it's nonsense.

I mean that's like a TRA saying I can't be a woman because I identify as not having a gender.
Someone's "identity" and their physical reality don't always match.

“I also don't think having some photos of "breast binding" that to all intents and purposes look like wearing a bandeau bra is "promoting" it. But that's just me.”

Just as well that’s not what we’re talking about then.

“In their latest post, Corrin said they use binders from trans-owned company gc2b. “Bind safely,” the actor said.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/emma-corrin-chest-binder-pronouns_n_60e7705de4b0639661bcf29a/amp

I'm not dismissing the harm of breast binding, and I'm not attacking women for "criticising Corrins promotion of the ideology".

The breast binding thing is a strawman characterisation of what I've said. I'm not in the business of telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies. Bodily autonomy is important.

I'm criticising posters who have just been downright unpleasant about Corrin on the basis of how she describes herself, and have minimised and dismissed abuse she's experienced. I'm behaving entirely consistently with someone who's a feminist (believing women when they talk about abuse) and GC (woman = adult human female, you can't identify out of it).

Now I'm not responding further to you misrepresenting me in this way. I'm finding it goady and don't want to get into a fight.

The bodily autonomy line is often used by TRAs. “Why are you telling people what they can do with their bodies”. No one is. We’re talking about an individual who is promoting an ideology that lots of people here oppose. I’m unclear why you think EC - who for many people would fit the criteria of a GI activist- should be immune from criticism.

Once again. I don't. The posts I object to are the ones I quoted on the previous page. They are not "criticism". They are just unpleasant.

Also, implying that saying bodily autonomy is important is a TRA thing is just ridiculous. It's a feminist thing. TRAs may have coopted it, that doesn't mean feminists talking about women's bodily autonomy are TRAs. Very bad faith argument to make.

If you want adults to be free to do what they want with their own bodies you also have a moral obligation to ensure they have good, accurate and wide-ranging information upon which to base those decisions, not a one-sided narrative that mean adults (often very young ones) are making decisions about their own bodies on flawed and partial information.

Promoting the belief that female people who don't feel comfortable in traditional female gender roles (and let's face it, who does?) need to alter (even temporarily) their female body in ways that damage it (and the psychology behind that and how it relates to the very long tradition of mortifying and punishing ones female flesh to prove ones higher nature is something I'd very much like to know more about) to be acceptable as themselves is not a neutral act.

I hope EC is making a healthy and fully informed decision about what to do with her own body (although I doubt it, because honestly, what healthy reason is there to bind your breasts to make it look like you don't have them?). I don't think that extends to accepting the narrative of NB female people without question, and it is not somehow attacking EC to point out the flaws and dangers in the story and image she is selling.

I didn’t suggest it was unique to TRAs. I said it was a line they use. Are you denying they say things like “why do terfs want to tell adults what they can do with their bodies”.

As I said. People generally aren’t. They’re talking about someone promoting an ideology. Including breast binding. Promoting. Not just ‘having some photos of “breast binding”’ as you claimed. Not sure what the scare quotes were for either.

In which case there's nothing to conform to! Or not conform.

It's nonsense.

If she's neither male nor female she can't use them as a reason to buck them.

I have a little bit of an issue with breast binding and the idea that it is little more than wearing an uber tight sports bra.

My DD breast bound (without my knowledge) at 12. But the time she was 13 (on her birthday in fact) she was hospitalised with a blocked cyst that had become infected. It was the size of a golf ball. It has to be incised/drained and she spent three days in hospital on an IV antibiotic drip. She still wears a sports-bra at 19, but one that is properly measured to fit correctly yet, for her, minimises the appearance of breasts - but there is a huge difference between this and the binders.

So celebs that promote this practice are, frankly, irresponsible (I think I’m being a overly polite here, but I want to avoid being confrontational, if I can). Tattooing and piercing is regulated, practitioners have insurance and training. If something goes wrong the client can sue. There is no recourse for those harmed by breast-binding.

I have no thoughts on EC because I don't really know who she is and her thoughts and actions are meh to me.
However, this sentence stood out to me.
AdamRyan - There has never been this time where its been OK to be GNC

It depends on how strongly gender stereotypes are enforced within a society at a given time - I can assure AdamRyan that in rural farming communities like I grew up around, a gender-non-conforming woman was a gem, in that she wasn't wearing high heels all the time, putting on a full face of make-up before going out, and walked and worked as a woman with strength and effectiveness.
[Dylan Mulvaney wouldn't have lasted a minute]

It was also very OK to be GNC in the days of Glam Rock. In fact, Bowie did the whole GNC thang while simultaneously being a married man with wife and child in the suburbs, didn't he, and he did all right out of it.

I've lived all my life being a GNC girl/woman, and while it hasn't always been easy - clothes-shopping, grrrrr - on the whole it has been accepted as 'OK'.

Being lesbian, on the other hand, hasn't, because of homophobia.
I can tell the difference.

I'm so sorry you and your daughter went through this. I'm so glad she no longer feels the need to breast bind.

@MarieDeGournay I wasn’t sure whether to push back on this as I’m not personally GNC, but was a tomboy until puberty and a teen in the 80’s. I’ve also lived most of my life in London and the SE, so assume that my friendship and work circles are more liberal (in the old sense of that word’s meaning).

However, on the rare occasions a GNC colleague or friend has been commented upon in my presence, they’ve generally been very resilient (lots of eye rolling and a few sharp barbs back) and found we, their peers/mates, have been quick to push back. The people making the comments tend to be the same ones making misogynistic or homophobic slurs, too, so they’ve generally been the ones derided and shunned.

I do appreciate this is not the case everywhere, though. I just genuinely felt, until recently, that GNCity was pretty much accepted. I hope that I’ve not been mistaken and guilty of complacency! I certainly see, through my DDs struggles that lesbophobia is rampant, esp amongst porn addled teen boys who feel that female same sex attraction is theirs for appropriation.

Off-topic, but Bowie (who I will always adore) was extremely GNC in that he had full custody of his 9-year-old son after he and his first wife divorced- almost unheard of in 1980. His ex-wife hasn't even seen their son since he was 13.

I have definitely sensed a growing lesbophobia in the media, entirely created by gender ideology, e.g. the concept of the 'cotton ceiling'. I'm lucky in that none of it has any bearing on my life, as I've been with my wife for 8 years, and back when I was online dating I was never contacted by 'transwomen' and forced to point out that I was only attracted to actual women, but it makes me so angry on behalf of other lesbians who are having to field this in their daily lives. Especially young lesbians like your daughter, who have grown up being told that 'trans lesbians are lesbians', and so may feel guilty for not wanting to date or have sex with them, or experience pushback from their peers if they openly say they don't want to.

I feel like I grew up in the very brief period of time when people accepted that lesbians don't want to have sex with men, no matter how they identify.

Lots of this^. I grew up and have been around lots of GNC people. And I was a tomboy (and often mistaken for a boy). It wasn’t a particularly big deal

And people like Bowie demonstrated one of the many ways to be a man. It’s why I find so much of GI regressive. Now GNC boys & girls are pushed toward being trans or NB. “You don’t conform to stereotypes, therefore you are other”. It’s depressing & I think celebrities who push this contribute to that depressing landscape.

Edit: I meant to add, I wonder how much of EC’s attitude stems from having a religious, probably conservative, education. That must reinforce what a ‘proper woman’ is.

I agree. In order to be feminine, men have to say they're actually a woman. If women want to be masculine, they are encouraged to say they are men.

And in order to be androgenous they have to say they are neither.

It utterly cements gender stereotypes.

Which is why it's so illogical when they say they're progressive and non-conforming. It's the opposite.

Yes. I agree. I was talking about the "binder" she was wearing in the photo. Not binders generally. They are a very bad idea.

I'm not sure she's "promoting" it as such, more using the shock value to get media attention. Like Madonna doing her sex thing, it's just the sort of shit female celebs do. She does at least talk about "binding safely" which is something.

I think the media are more responsible than she is for publishing the article.

Oh come on. She named the company that supplied her binder.

I'm not sure she's "promoting" it as such, more using the shock value to get media attention. Like Madonna doing her sex thing, it's just the sort of shit female celebs do.

Yes. Whatever she may believe her non-binary personality to be that makes her not female, as far as I can see she's no different to all the other broken little girls who for some reason believe if they just play the game hard enough the things they have to endure to play it will stop hurting.

This is clear evidence that EC is non-binary. No woman would team those shoes with that bag; no man would wear that cardie and most men and women manage to put their trousers on before they leave the house.

For those who missed it. I don’t see how this is anything other than promoting breast binding. Showcasing it as cool. And for full disclosure the company she named didn’t supply the binder in the photos. They generally supply her. So when she’s binding privately- not just to get media attention. Although tbh I’d consider glorifying breast binding just to get attention pretty despicable.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/emma-corrin-chest-binder-pronouns_n_60e7705de4b0639661bcf29a/amp

Having read a few interviews with her, she strikes me as someone who’s very conscious of how other people see her, and hasn’t realized/accepted that there’s only so much she can do about that. I watched the Netflix production of “Lady Chatterly’s Lover,” in which she’s completely nude, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she has an eating disorder.

Taking gender identity out of it, I think I remember her mentioning dating women in the past? A bisexual woman and a heterosexual man are a mixed-orientation couple.

Yep. I have sympathy for her for that reason.