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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Grauniad on a damaging “reality” show

287 replies

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 25/04/2024 20:34

Another slanted take from The Guardian on a trans story. It seems to me that the main take from this sad tale should be that lying, or concealing the truth, has consequences. But the article doesn’t really mention that angle.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/25/she-was-tough-but-it-broke-her-why-theres-something-about-miriam-was-reality-tvs-most-shameful-low

‘She was tough, but it broke her’: why There’s Something About Miriam was reality TV’s most shameful low

From Miriam being ‘revealed’ as a transgender woman to the contestants trashing the set, it was the cruellest reality show ever. Ahead of a new series about its tragic fallout, Miriam’s brother and friend open up for the first time about her death

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/25/she-was-tough-but-it-broke-her-why-theres-something-about-miriam-was-reality-tvs-most-shameful-low

OP posts:
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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 26/04/2024 22:45

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 22:42

We call that misgendering.

Also known as correct-sexing. Hopefully, as the madness lifts, MNHQ will feel able to stop pandering to activists and allow us to speak the truth.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 26/04/2024 22:50

And we call that correctly sexing. I don’t misgender when I’m basing my pronouns referring to you (not your pronouns) on the sex I perceive you as.

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 26/04/2024 23:18

We call that misgendering.

And then God kills a kitten.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 26/04/2024 23:33

Delphinium20 · 26/04/2024 23:18

We call that misgendering.

And then God kills a kitten.

I thought a fairy died, or am I confusing with Peter Pan? 🧚‍♂️

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/04/2024 23:41

Misgendering vs correctly sexing.

In a nutshell, a perfect demonstration of why we should not be trying to use the same words for two different things.

If trans people exist then sex is not gender.
If sex is not gender then the genders should not have the same names as the sexes.
If the genders did not have the same names as the sexes no one would ever have come up with the idea that a man's gender could entitle him to women-only resources.

The whole edifice is based on nothing more than making one word mean two different things then pretending the two different things are the same because they have the same name.

SaltPorridge · 27/04/2024 06:32

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 22:42

We call that misgendering.

I'm aware that you do. And that children have been told they are being bullied if they are "misgendered". The precise point of my post is that a boy was told he was a girl and called she/her. The boy was lied to. The young adult that boy became seemed to think that the whole world would agree he was a she. But actually that sleazy show was based on the premise that she was a he and that men feel angry if they are tricked into falling for a man.
Children have to learn they must be truthful. Telling them lies is twice cruel.

EasternStandard · 27/04/2024 07:21

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 22:42

We call that misgendering.

‘We’ as in you and gender ideology believers.

Mangling language is nothing to aspire to, especially when the harms are becoming clearer to many

Terref · 27/04/2024 07:24

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 22:42

We call that misgendering.

Who is 'we'?

'Misgendering' is a term invented quite recently. It only makes any sense if one accepts the premise that people have an inner gender essence that is unconnected to material reality.

Some people believe in a gendered essence.

Some people are willing to go along with it to be kind.

Most deal in the material reality of biological sex. As mammals evolved by dichotomous sexual reproduction, that's just not something that can be identified or theorised out of.

'Misgendering' as a word is a term that describes a sin within a faith that most people don't subscribe to. It's akin to scolding atheists for eating non halal food.

RedToothBrush · 27/04/2024 08:09

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/04/2024 23:41

Misgendering vs correctly sexing.

In a nutshell, a perfect demonstration of why we should not be trying to use the same words for two different things.

If trans people exist then sex is not gender.
If sex is not gender then the genders should not have the same names as the sexes.
If the genders did not have the same names as the sexes no one would ever have come up with the idea that a man's gender could entitle him to women-only resources.

The whole edifice is based on nothing more than making one word mean two different things then pretending the two different things are the same because they have the same name.

Edited

One names reality.

The other seeks to hold up a lie and a fantasy at the expense of reality and other people.

And unfortunately this doesn't protect or stop reality of the individual coercing and demanding to use wrong sex pronouns because biological sex still exists and cannot be changed.

We need to stop pandering to it. It causes harm to more people to lie. Including to the person who wails about pronouns.

GailBlancheViola · 27/04/2024 09:38

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 22:42

We call that misgendering.

Who is this we?

How apt it is to compel speech and insist others lie and be party to deceit on a thread about the fall out and consequences of doing just that.

FlippinFumin · 27/04/2024 09:40

Going back to BB5 (sorry but I really was an avid fan then). Nadia was clocked pretty quickly as a man by Victor and Jason. Most of the UK knew. It is revisionism at its finest to say Nadia passed as a woman. Nadia was massive, walked like a builder, had an adams apple and a very manly chin.

24 hour live footage was available at that time, and anyone who watched could see the manipulation of the audience. Nadia was a nasty piece of work, a bully, yet none of this was shown on the hour long programme each evening. Nadia was presented as the poor victim. BB5 was bonkers and fabulous in equal measure. Never watched again after the terrible audience manipulation. I think also it was the last series to have 24 hour live feed.

Fight night was awful, again lying to participants on your show never works out well. The obvious racism was uncomfortable. The sex under the table was awful.

AdamRyan · 27/04/2024 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RedToothBrush · 27/04/2024 10:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

'Recollections may differ' was a diplomatic swipe at someone talking bollocks if I remember correctly...

AdamRyan · 27/04/2024 10:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

illinivich · 27/04/2024 10:24

Never watched again after the terrible audience manipulation.

Thats what lots of people forget about reality tv, the audience is manipulated as much as, maybe more than, the contestants are.

DrTWETMIRF · 27/04/2024 10:32

Nadia was always having to perform being a woman. The showering in heels was irritating, if Nadia was a woman then Nadia wouldn't have had to keep pretending.

I initially felt for Nadia as thought life must have been hard to feel the need for a sex change but the falseness soon got on my nerves.

FlippinFumin · 27/04/2024 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Different recollections does not negate the truth though.

DrTWETMIRF · 27/04/2024 10:38

Bigly Brother

Grin
AdamRyan · 27/04/2024 10:51

It's interesting to wonder if she would win now or not.

I was reading yesterday that she insisted on "controlling the narrative" when she went in there and I wonder how much that had to do with how the audience perceived her.

EasternStandard · 27/04/2024 10:58

FlippinFumin · 27/04/2024 09:40

Going back to BB5 (sorry but I really was an avid fan then). Nadia was clocked pretty quickly as a man by Victor and Jason. Most of the UK knew. It is revisionism at its finest to say Nadia passed as a woman. Nadia was massive, walked like a builder, had an adams apple and a very manly chin.

24 hour live footage was available at that time, and anyone who watched could see the manipulation of the audience. Nadia was a nasty piece of work, a bully, yet none of this was shown on the hour long programme each evening. Nadia was presented as the poor victim. BB5 was bonkers and fabulous in equal measure. Never watched again after the terrible audience manipulation. I think also it was the last series to have 24 hour live feed.

Fight night was awful, again lying to participants on your show never works out well. The obvious racism was uncomfortable. The sex under the table was awful.

I couldn’t recall Nadia so I looked up a clip and it was a lot of yelling after a food fight. Then an exit interview with someone called Jo who was horrific towards someone called Shilpa

They showed clips of bullying and racism that looks pretty shocking now, it really was a bravado time in tv production

RedToothBrush · 27/04/2024 11:03

DrTWETMIRF · 27/04/2024 10:38

Bigly Brother

Grin

Amazing!

Wonkypictureframe · 27/04/2024 11:30

EasternStandard · 27/04/2024 10:58

I couldn’t recall Nadia so I looked up a clip and it was a lot of yelling after a food fight. Then an exit interview with someone called Jo who was horrific towards someone called Shilpa

They showed clips of bullying and racism that looks pretty shocking now, it really was a bravado time in tv production

Those are two entirely different series of BB.

EasternStandard · 27/04/2024 11:31

Wonkypictureframe · 27/04/2024 11:30

Those are two entirely different series of BB.

Edited

Yes I’m aware.

It was a comment on what was done generally in tv production at that time.

YouTube happened to show Ho’s exit interview after the clip I looked for and I watched that

Wonkypictureframe · 27/04/2024 11:38

Ah, OK. It was across the board at that time. I know someone who worked on BB5 and there was a lot not shown on the live feed too.

WoshPank · 27/04/2024 11:56

borogovia · 26/04/2024 10:47

If I remember rightly, Nadia came out quite early in the series. Rather than 'Accept me as a woman', it was 'Accept me for who I am'.

Yeah I vaguely recall that. In comparing the two, I never saw TSAMM, but I think the big difference is that Nadia wasn't particularly sexualised. People could go on BB, not be presented much in that way, and still do very well. Whereas Miriam was there entirely as a subject of romantic interest.