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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Grauniad on a damaging “reality” show

287 replies

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 25/04/2024 20:34

Another slanted take from The Guardian on a trans story. It seems to me that the main take from this sad tale should be that lying, or concealing the truth, has consequences. But the article doesn’t really mention that angle.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/25/she-was-tough-but-it-broke-her-why-theres-something-about-miriam-was-reality-tvs-most-shameful-low

‘She was tough, but it broke her’: why There’s Something About Miriam was reality TV’s most shameful low

From Miriam being ‘revealed’ as a transgender woman to the contestants trashing the set, it was the cruellest reality show ever. Ahead of a new series about its tragic fallout, Miriam’s brother and friend open up for the first time about her death

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/25/she-was-tough-but-it-broke-her-why-theres-something-about-miriam-was-reality-tvs-most-shameful-low

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IcakethereforeIam · 26/04/2024 09:35

I think Miriam was let down by the TV company. Desperately sad.

Nadia though, I was never a BB viewer so I can't personally comment on the passing. But I must have been in the room when it was on because I'm sure some of the other contestants had suspicions. I think Adam's apples were mentioned. Considering this is years before trans went mainstream I'm surprised it would have even crossed their minds if Nadia passed so convincingly.

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 26/04/2024 09:38

Nadia was popular because they were trans and that was unusual then - as I remember. I thought they came across as a funny, effeminate, over the top and slightly bullish, gay man.

OceanicBoundlessness · 26/04/2024 09:58

We don't know what hopes Miriam had for being on the show. Those men competing for Miriam's attention must have been a complete dream come true.
If you haven't realised that your dating pool will be massively restricted and being a woman comes down to biology, not 'passing' on the surface, then slapping full pelt against reality is going to be devastating.
I think Miriam went into it naively as many young people do. That's why lying at the outset, before all the little adjustments in terms of body modifications, hormones and thought processes is so cruel. Essentially Miriam was 12 or younger when Miriam started down this path. The adults let Miriam down again and again.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/04/2024 10:01

Nadia was popular because they were trans and that was unusual then - as I remember. I thought they came across as a funny, effeminate, over the top and slightly bullish, gay man.

Same here. I didn't really follow that series of BB because I had personal stuff going on but I didn't particularly think Nadia passed as female when I did watch it. Can't say whether I would have known without it being open when I became aware of Nadia.

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 10:43

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 26/04/2024 09:38

Nadia was popular because they were trans and that was unusual then - as I remember. I thought they came across as a funny, effeminate, over the top and slightly bullish, gay man.

I watched it and IIRC noone knew she was trans at first (can't remember if the audience knew) and she didn't come out to the contestants for a while. I don't think they guessed. Mind you it is all very heavily produced so who knows

borogovia · 26/04/2024 10:47

If I remember rightly, Nadia came out quite early in the series. Rather than 'Accept me as a woman', it was 'Accept me for who I am'.

Terref · 26/04/2024 10:59

borogovia · 26/04/2024 10:47

If I remember rightly, Nadia came out quite early in the series. Rather than 'Accept me as a woman', it was 'Accept me for who I am'.

A far more agreeable strategy.

GenericMNwoman · 26/04/2024 11:05

There were a couple of deceptive dating reality shows around then. I remember one where the woman competing were told that the guy was a millionaire when he wasn’t.

There was also an insane one where the girls thought that they were competing for Prince Harry 😳. In reality it was some ginger English guy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Wanna_Marry_%22Harry%22

I Wanna Marry "Harry" - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Wanna_Marry_%22Harry%22

SlipperyLizard · 26/04/2024 11:18

The programme should never have been made, hugely irresponsible of the production company to not anticipate the reaction of heterosexual men to finding out their date has a penis.

Revealing as always that Miriam preferred “playing with dolls” to baseball and so instead of growing up to be a happy gay man, was homophobically transed into a “woman”.

I feel deeply sorry for all those who took part.

RedToothBrush · 26/04/2024 11:27

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 09:23

I thought the point that the boys had each other but she had noone was well made.
They were all victims in this, but in my opinion it was worse for her because she had no support and also was blamed for her role.

Also interested in the brief comparison with Nadia Almada. Nadia really does put the lie to the line "you can always tell". She totally passed .

Hmm.

Not sure I agree with that assessment of Nadia at all.

Thats revisionism.
There were contestants in the house who did guess.

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 11:38

It was a very long time ago. That series was also absolutely bonkers iirc. Wasn't that the one where there was a huge fight and people got kicked out?
(I was an avid watcher of that series 😂)

RedToothBrush · 26/04/2024 11:40

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 11:38

It was a very long time ago. That series was also absolutely bonkers iirc. Wasn't that the one where there was a huge fight and people got kicked out?
(I was an avid watcher of that series 😂)

Clearly avid if you aren't sure if it was the series of fight night.
Hmm

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 11:46

RedToothBrush · 26/04/2024 11:40

Clearly avid if you aren't sure if it was the series of fight night.
Hmm

🙄
Honestly. Stop being bitchy. It was 20 years ago, I watched most of the series' and now am hazy about things like whether Alex Sibley was the same series as Michelle Bass. Like most people probably. It's not that deep and you don't need to seize on everything to make out I'm a liar.

Anyway here's a news article from the time.

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/nadia-almada-a-heroine-for-our-times-50675.html

EasternStandard · 26/04/2024 11:51

Some of them indicated they knew with some comments

RedToothBrush · 26/04/2024 12:39

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 11:46

🙄
Honestly. Stop being bitchy. It was 20 years ago, I watched most of the series' and now am hazy about things like whether Alex Sibley was the same series as Michelle Bass. Like most people probably. It's not that deep and you don't need to seize on everything to make out I'm a liar.

Anyway here's a news article from the time.

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/nadia-almada-a-heroine-for-our-times-50675.html

Stop saying things as fact when they are bollocks then! And making out you are some sort of massive authority on things when it takes about five seconds for it to collapse as utter rubbish.

Avid fans are a totally different level and yes digitalspy is easy to check this type of thing on.

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 13:26

I remember sitting in the common room at uni watching an episode of that series of Big Brother and seeing the way that people were talking about Nadia. It was horrifying. I was sat right there in a room full of people saying they thought she was gross; some saying that they couldn't believe how anyone could think she was a woman; while others making comments like 'oh she's actually quite pretty, considering...' and 'I'd kick the shit out of anyone like that'. All the usual stuff. I was right there, hearing it all wash over me, hearing as usual how people talk about those they perceive to be trans when they don't think a trans person can hear.

I thought she was beautiful, if a little annoying, and while the usual transdar made it hard to unsee her past, I was pleased at how well she managed to pass to those who didn't know - I was terrified she was going to be immediately clocked by everyone and then every week would just be an exercise in trans-bashing live on TV.

GailBlancheViola · 26/04/2024 13:44

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 10:43

I watched it and IIRC noone knew she was trans at first (can't remember if the audience knew) and she didn't come out to the contestants for a while. I don't think they guessed. Mind you it is all very heavily produced so who knows

I watched it and you are talking bullshit, the other contestants clocked it within the first few minutes, two of them were openly discussing it. Nadia certainly didn't 'pass' on the screen either amongst any of the people I know who watched it at the time.

GailBlancheViola · 26/04/2024 13:51

Terref · 26/04/2024 09:28

Yes, horribly dishonest, unethical, exploitative and manipulative of the TV company.

A male being presented as a woman in an attempt to trap and deceive others is fraudulent, unethical, and dishonest.

In the context of seeking to involve participants in sex by deception in order to provoke a strong response it was breaching every ethic on consent. Grossly calculated, manipulative behaviour.

The TV company were criminal in their actions.

This. Lying and deceiving never ends well.

DuesToTheDirt · 26/04/2024 14:08

Back to the Guardian article (my only source for this programme, I'd never heard of it before), obviously the producers were completely in the wrong, and the male suitors were innocent. But Miriam? Vulnerable, maybe, confused, maybe. But what on earth did Miriam expect to get from this show? Was Miriam expecting that when the men found out they would say, "Oh, ok fine, I don't care that you're actually a man? No problem." Surely not.

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 14:23

DuesToTheDirt · 26/04/2024 14:08

Back to the Guardian article (my only source for this programme, I'd never heard of it before), obviously the producers were completely in the wrong, and the male suitors were innocent. But Miriam? Vulnerable, maybe, confused, maybe. But what on earth did Miriam expect to get from this show? Was Miriam expecting that when the men found out they would say, "Oh, ok fine, I don't care that you're actually a man? No problem." Surely not.

I expect she thought it was going to male her famous and that the men would laugh it off. I doubt she expected she'd end up with any of them.

The sorts of people who go on reality TV seem often to be quite troubled.

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 14:25

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DuesToTheDirt · 26/04/2024 14:26

@AdamRyan I guess Miriam didn't realise that nobody likes to be made a fool of, especially on TV.

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 14:26

DuesToTheDirt · 26/04/2024 14:26

@AdamRyan I guess Miriam didn't realise that nobody likes to be made a fool of, especially on TV.

The producers are responsible for that, not a 21 year old. Poor miriam :(

DuesToTheDirt · 26/04/2024 14:29

AdamRyan · 26/04/2024 14:26

The producers are responsible for that, not a 21 year old. Poor miriam :(

I agree the producers were primarily responsible, but I don't agree Miriam was blameless.