The Grauniad on a damaging “reality” show

[RapidOnsetGenderCritic]

Another slanted take from The Guardian on a trans story. It seems to me that the main take from this sad tale should be that lying, or concealing the truth, has consequences. But the article doesn’t really mention that angle.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/25/she-was-tough-but-it-broke-her-why-theres-something-about-miriam-was-reality-tvs-most-shameful-low

What are you blaming her for? Being shallow and pursuing fame and ££ by going on the show?

The 2000s were an awful time for this kind of "shock" TV and I think the producers were very cynical.

Mind you we just had a comparable thing on MAFS

https://www.google.com/search?q=mafs+transgender&oq=mafs+tra&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABDIHCAoQLhiABDIHCAsQABiABDIHCAwQABiABDIHCA0QABiABDIHCA4QABiABNIBCDMyNzZqMGo5qAIOsAIB&client=ms-android-samsung-ga-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

She didn't pass in my house or some of my friends. She carried off the deception at first,
then came the 'there's something off about her' but we didn't know what exactly. Then suddenly the light fell in such a way that her face was mannish and after that we noticed her walk, her throat etc We didn't say trans though. That concept was hardly known then - seems like another world.

Miriam was pretty young, and had friends and a family who accepted them. M probably naively thought that if the men had time to get to know M first and liked M/fell for M as a person the reveal would be a shock but not a deal breaker.

In a more natural relationship (ie not a manufactured reality show) that might even have happened, plenty of people have had relationships they would never have thought they would. I expect Miriam massively underestimated the way people respond one to one is not the way they respond with an audience.

Miriam would also have had the production crew telling M what M wanted to hear.

It's rarely ethical to want to trick others.

Im an American and the concept of "passing" comes the deeply racist one-drop rule that said even if you looked white, if you had one great-great-great grandparent who wasn't, that one drop of blood was enough to lose citizenship or pull you into slavery. People who could potentially pass as white meant they could access better health care, marry who they wanted, keep their children, escape slavery, vote and have other rights.

Equating passing with a man trying to trick other men into sex for fame and $ and then asking others to find sympathy with this attempt is grotesque.

Miriam knew that being trans was the twist of the show, and was the only contestant to know. It would be strange if Miriam assumed all the men would be accepting, therefore knew he was putting men in an embarrassing position.

TV does use people, so i have sympathy for everyone involved, but Miriam was using the other contestants and didnt think about their consent.

Similarly, if a man entered a womans space, undressed and then everyone has sympathy for the naked man because all the women could talk to each other about the experience, and the man had no one to talk to. Its ignoring the situation miriam willingly took part in.

Hopefully, everyone getting themselves involved in reality tv understand it more now. It was a cruel concept for a show for everyone involved.

We can see from many trans people posting online how often they delude themselves that they will be sexually attractive to heterosexual partners of the same sex/opposite assumed-gender, after transition.

I have limited sympathy for mature adults who delude themselves into transitioning, but I am sad for younger, more naive people whose delusions are exploited, whether by doctors offering PBs/surgery or, as in this case, TV producers.

In a more natural relationship (ie not a manufactured reality show) that might even have happened, plenty of people have had relationships they would never have thought they would.

Within reason. They won't freely have sexual relations with someone who is not the sex they're attracted to. Nobody should begin a relationship under false pretences, it's not fair on the other person. And when it comes to straight men in particular, I think a male person who begins a relationship under the pretence that he's female, is very possibly in danger.

Nadia didn’t come out to the other contestants in any footage that was broadcast. Every exit interview that series ended with Davina announcing the big secret dramatically and the evictees at least pretending to be surprised. Quite like she was a side show act.

I think ironically that Nadia would pass less well now as people are seeing more trans people in the media and it’s something people think about when meeting new people.

It wasn’t really comparable. Ella was obviously trans and out as trans and Nathaniel (the person they were paired with) was a bi-sexual man who was aware (although not happy) they had been paired with a very feminised TW. He had asked to be paired with a man or a masculine woman so Ella was not his type. Masculine women aren’t really a good fit for MAFS though.

I was thinking more that people do sometimes feel an attraction and with that discover a component to their sexuality they hadn't been (consciously) aware of.

Less nicely, there undoubtably are men who consider themselves straight but are interested in trans women sexually and I'd be surprised if Miriam hadn't experienced that or at least be aware of it through friends.

I entirely agree that rejection and a sense of betrayl was always the most likely outcome and that Miriam's deception of potential romantic partners over that length of time including intimate contact like romantic kissing was unforgiveable. My point was more that I could see how Miriam might had unrealistic expectations.

Not sure why I was deleted, but the concept of passing is thinly veiled racism. Passing for Black people meant they could escape slavery. Passing for transwomen in this context means tricking men to sleep with them.

Yes I agree.

I'm also a bit 😬about the use of the word 'passing' in a thread about someone who's dead.

No judgement on anyone who has used it, they've not used it inappropriately. It's just a weird juxtaposition.

Sorry...

I think ironically that Nadia would pass less well now as people are seeing more trans people in the media and it’s something people think about when meeting new people.

YY. There's no way I wouldn't work out Nadia's sex if I saw BB for the first time tomorrow, I'm not sure if I would have then, without the knowledge that I already had, as I said.

My point was more that I could see how Miriam might had unrealistic expectations.

Yes I agree. It's one of the awful aspects of transactivism today - you have people like Rivera, desperate to believe that they can be the sex they want to be, and you have idiots thinking it's kind to encourage them in this belief.

No judgement on anyone who has used it

Very good of you I'm sure, to allow us the use of a word that has an obviously different meaning in the given context, and which is a naff euphemism when used about death, anyway. I'm sure we are very much obliged for your indulgence 🙄

You're welcome.

This is where conspiring to deceive children is despicable, and many people intending to be kind don't or perhaps can't imagine the consequences. Hugo started taking hormones at age 11. Did he ever develop adult sexual desire? Was he able to fully appreciate what it is to be heterosexual or homosexual? And surrounded by lies, did he appreciate how very wrong lying is?
The whole setup reminds me of a nasty joke where a group of men get a friend drunk and hire a transvestite prostitute to see how far the victim will fall for the deceit.

Reading between the lines (news article and podcasts) I think Miriam was lured by the prospect of fame, affirmation and possibly an altruistic desire to raise the public profile of transwomen.

The producers were a gay couple known at the time for making 'progressive' content. I imagine it was sold to Miriam as a provocative series that would challenge people's perceptions about trans people and sexuality.

In the late 90s I spent a summer working as a runner on a trashy talk show. The 'researchers' were adept at telling people what they wanted to hear and the often vulnerable guests were easily steered.

The idea that straight men have to check their sexuality is just as bonkers as saying that to gay men.

There's a really strange idea that men who don't want to have sex with other men are just homophobic. Like heterosexuality is just sex for people who aren't open minded.

If its true that Miriam just wanted love from someone who saw him as a woman, its a risky way of doing it. And isnt it an indication that 'transition' needs to be when people are ready to understand other peoples boundaries and sexuality?

Now I’m wondering what’s getting deleted

I think my comments are getting deleted because I refer to the subject using pronouns based on biological sex and the given name that went with them.
I said when a child is surrounded by lies, then they might not appreciate how others feel about being deceived.
And that a person who has not developed adult sexuality due to being given puberty blockers from age 11 won't be able to imagine what it is like to be heterosexual or homosexual.

Is that okay now?

We call that misgendering.