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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 8

1000 replies

Kucinghitam · 16/04/2024 12:11

Continuation of Thread 7.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 7 | Mumsnet

Continuation of [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4861150-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-6? Thread 6]]. There is so much...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4936346-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-7

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 19/06/2024 12:06

Britinme · 18/06/2024 13:34

Sadly, I think @bignosebignose is right here. Those of us on MN and in particular on FWR have paid close attention to this issue, but most people haven't, and even if they have more awareness of it still think that getting rid of the Tories is more important.

We're in a similar situation on my side of the Atlantic in that the Dems are captured on this issue and the Republican states opposing it are pretty repellent, but I'm still going to vote Democrat in November because the prospect of a Trump presidency is too nightmarish.

If we are paying attention, we are more politically aware and care about politics. That means we are take all more likely to be regular voters on MN. We might not be representative of the whole population, but that doesn't mean its not significant.

The fact that there are a bunch of regular voters, who can't be relied upon this time around, is actually important.

A note about how pollsters work:

Most regular polls don't take into account how likely you are to vote in there was a GE tomorrow. They just look at which party is your preference. Its just a more general opinion poll. Its costly to do this weighting, and theres no real benefit to it, because you've nothing to 'prove it' against in terms of how accurate it is.

In a General Election run up, the pollsters DO EVENTUALLY start to look at this, and do start to do weighing based on apathy levels. They start to try and nail down all the 'don't knows' who have a significant swing effect too, because what they do matters. Normally these just get ignored as irrelevant.

How many people here have said they are 'don't knows' on principle. Its interesting.

We are now just over two weeks from a GE. This is the point at which the pollsters do start to factor in the apathy factor and the don't know factor. The closer we get to the election, the more do this to try and make their poll the most accurate as their commerical reputation is staked on getting this right. They can't really do it earlier anyway because people don't take their final decisions until the last minute - even things like bad weather are noted to be an influence on these final predictations.

The fact that even the most politicially engaged are a noticably a lot more apathetic or reluctant to vote this time around (I'm feeling it myself and noticing it in friends), is significant.

I do wonder if Labour's internal private polls are picking up on it, because this would be the point that I think it would start to be looked at more seriously at intent to actually get off your backside and go to the polling station and those undecided voters.

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2024 12:09

I've touched on this point briefly on the Did Keir Starmer say thread (see my post at 00:21 today)
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5099526-did-keir-starmer-just-say?page=6

Theres something just not sitting quite straight with me in terms of noise atm.

Labour strike me as more nervous as they have right to be given polling.

Their big issue is getting their vote to turn out.

lcakethereforeIam · 19/06/2024 12:15

There seems to be a campaign starting to get people to not bother voting. I've no idea if this is new for this election or how much traction it's getting.

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2024 12:19

lcakethereforeIam · 19/06/2024 12:15

There seems to be a campaign starting to get people to not bother voting. I've no idea if this is new for this election or how much traction it's getting.

Think time around, as a strategy I think its possibly a more effective idea for the Tories to push this at potential Labour voters rather than to try to get them to vote Tory!!! (Yes I am being serious here). Its their best strategy to hang onto certain seats.

BezMills · 19/06/2024 13:09

The party cruising to a historic and epic humiliation is the one which gains from a lower turnout

duc748 · 19/06/2024 13:19

It’s a good start but I’ll only be happy when people don’t even wear shoes when walking near holy ground.

Arf! 😄

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 19/06/2024 17:26

Heh!

So a couple of days ago I went to an event at the Law Society.

It now has at least some “gender neutral” toilets. In the break the women went straight to the loo, obviously - you want to be early.

Nice individual cubicles with their own basin and hand dryer.

I spent about twice the time I would normally spend in a toilet cubicle because I’d normally leave it to wash my hands in the open area.

The men were arriving as I left. I suppose men aren’t used to queuing, so I wonder how many manly complaints they’ll get and how long the setup will last.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 19/06/2024 18:06

Thrle pushback against changes to Title IX in the US is off to a promising start, with a judge who appears to both understand reality and remember that women and girls are people and have speciplfic needs. threadreaderapp.com/thread/1802945224697659494.html

MouseMinge · 19/06/2024 19:57

I just had an email from The Torygraph with their latest poll which is shocking. I haven't opened the link because I don't subscribe to the paper but in short it shows three quarters of the cabinet losing their seats, including Sunak and the Tories down to 53 seats with Labour having 516. I doubt it will turn out that bad, at least I hope not. Much as I'd love to see it happen to the Tories I really don't want Labour having that huge a majority.

DeanElderberry · 19/06/2024 20:03

The poll figures do worry me - Reform and the Conservatives combined are only a few percentage points behind Labour, but the FPTP system is going to lead to a huge Labour majority with hardly any opposition. I'm a notorious lefty, but that doesn't seem right. The UK needs to move to a properly representative system, that will force politicians to work together in the interest of the country.

duc748 · 19/06/2024 20:11

The only upside of a big Labour majority is that they won't be beholden to the Greens, SNP, or LibDems, I suppose. And politicians don't tend to work too well together in countries with PR; look at Germany.

DeanElderberry · 19/06/2024 20:13

It doesn't seem to do too badly - certainly better than the UK. Mind you, that bar is so low it's practically lying on the ground.

ThreeWordHarpy · 19/06/2024 20:17

the pendulum swinging from one extreme to another so quickly is quite unusual in U.K. general elections. I’m not sure what that says about the stability of our politics or the apparent movement of Labour close to the centre.

I believe a good government has a strong opposition to hold them to account. For this reason I think Labour are partially culpable for the Thatcher excesses as they were too busy infighting Hatton et al which severely dented their credibility as Opposition. Kinnock got on top of it eventually but too late.

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2024 20:28

ThreeWordHarpy · 19/06/2024 20:17

the pendulum swinging from one extreme to another so quickly is quite unusual in U.K. general elections. I’m not sure what that says about the stability of our politics or the apparent movement of Labour close to the centre.

I believe a good government has a strong opposition to hold them to account. For this reason I think Labour are partially culpable for the Thatcher excesses as they were too busy infighting Hatton et al which severely dented their credibility as Opposition. Kinnock got on top of it eventually but too late.

Its about instability.

Thats why its so scary.

ThreeWordHarpy · 19/06/2024 20:37

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2024 20:28

Its about instability.

Thats why its so scary.

I wish you hadn’t demonstrated you know quite a bit about this kind of stuff in the thread that got deleted. Could you at least temper it with a bit of “don’t have nightmares folks” or something? Wink

Gonners · 19/06/2024 20:49

The electoral calculus site still shows Sunak with a 63% chance of holding his seat, though there are new boundaries in his constituency. But where I live (also new boundaries) - they're predicting a 55% chance of Labour winning in an area that has been relentlessly Tory since it was formed in 1983. But unless the Labour candidate (an excellent councillor) gets off her arse and becomes visible, and therefore quizzable, she's looking at two spoiled ballots in this house.

DuesToTheDirt · 19/06/2024 20:55

anyolddinosaur · 19/06/2024 09:18

Women's rights campaigners in the US have a choice between 2 steaming piles of shit. In the uk we have more steaming piles of shit to choose between, depending on where we live. So I dont see the US choice as worse., although it is not any better.

Ha ha yes.

Waitwhat23 · 19/06/2024 22:14

And yet another thread is now becoming unreadable due the repeated chorus of 'this board isn't feminist any more!!'. Just waiting for the muted trumpet bridge of 'echo chamber, eeeechhho chamber' to finish it off.

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2024 23:29

ThreeWordHarpy · 19/06/2024 20:37

I wish you hadn’t demonstrated you know quite a bit about this kind of stuff in the thread that got deleted. Could you at least temper it with a bit of “don’t have nightmares folks” or something? Wink

Don't have nightmares.

Its easy. Just make sure you and all your fuckwit friends and relatives don't lose the plot in 5 years time!

ThreeWordHarpy · 19/06/2024 23:46

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2024 23:29

Don't have nightmares.

Its easy. Just make sure you and all your fuckwit friends and relatives don't lose the plot in 5 years time!

Erm, it’s late so I’m not sure but am I included in the fuckwit descriptor? Can’t help my relatives but life is too short for fuckwit friends.

RedToothBrush · 20/06/2024 00:08

ThreeWordHarpy · 19/06/2024 23:46

Erm, it’s late so I’m not sure but am I included in the fuckwit descriptor? Can’t help my relatives but life is too short for fuckwit friends.

I am saying make sure you are clued up and don't have fuckwits around you voting in insane ways in five years time.

You have plenty of time to make sure they vote in sane ways.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 20/06/2024 09:40

lcakethereforeIam · 19/06/2024 23:20

Apparently Macron is transphobic!? Just noticed this in the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/19/emmanuel-macron-accused-of-being-transphobic/

https://archive.ph/GZ8sQ le mur du payer....?

I thought he was an ally.

There was something else about tinned food and Reform, I'm going back in.

The Left bloc is proposing 'free and unrestricted' change of gender. Not surprised Macron thinks it's bonkers.

Kucinghitam · 20/06/2024 10:39

If leaving wheel marks on a painted road crossing is transphobic, then I'm not surprised that Macron has found himself on the Wrong Side of History due to, dunno, breathing in and out at the wrong frequency.

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 20/06/2024 11:26

French president faces criticism after calling self-identification laws proposed by far-Left party ‘completely ludicrous’

Well, quite.

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