PCS - civil service union - and Unite - protest against women's rights event in Edinburgh

[ArabellaScott]

Images from Susan Dalgety.

The event was of course 'Let Women Speak' at the mound.

Why were PCOS and Unite protesting against it?

https://twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1776588747368177981/photo/1

I think 1) everyone can speak about what they want to, protests and counter protests are a healthy part of democracy as long as they are peaceful; 2) I have no idea what PCS/Unite flags were doing at the event and will reserve judgement on that until we find out; 3) there is a long conservative tradition of wanting to disband unions and so I think there is a motive for some people to magnify the significance of the flags at the event.

What about you? Do you think some movements are so sacrosanct that freedom of speech should be suspended and counter protesting forbidden?

What about you? Do you think some movements are so sacrosanct that freedom of speech should be suspended and counter protesting forbidden?

On this issue I think that unions owe a duty to all of their members and should be neutral.

I find it appalling that unions appear to be standing against the right of women to workplace sex based rights.

Of course if this is not what they were protesting against at this event presumably they will clarify their position.

I'm just amused at the amount of latitude given one way. If someone who had voted Tory in the 80's had been visiting the National Gallery at the same time as the protest, it would be taken as an example of 'right wing support'. But official union flags being flown to protest women's rights must have some other explanation. The 'just walking past' scenario is nonsense. If it's just outliers, then obviously the unions will strongly denounce the use of their flags?

And genuinely, if it turns out to be the case that the flags were not being used to protest against women's rights, then no-one will be more pleased than me. I still won't rate Unite as a union (because in my experience, they're shite) but at least they won't openly hate women.

@AnotherAngryAcademic

Affinity is a brilliant independent union which is not politically affiliated and has a piece on the front page of their webpage supporting academic freedom. I highly recommend them.

https://workaffinity.co.uk/

I can answer your questions. I think unions are there to support workers workplace rights and they should focus on that rather than picking sides on debates outside their remit and expertise. On that basis, I think it was highly inappropriate for Unions to be there.

What about you? Are there any political/ marches/ rallies you think Unions should not represented at? And if so, why these but not Let Women Speak?

That's a foolish position. Anyone can join a union and many in the high profile city-based tech company I work for have recently done so as they are forcing through some unpopular changes, as its gives you legal cover and representation. A female collague was recently forced out for underperformance and the union rep, in conjunction with their HR lawyer, got the financial settlement they initially offered in the compromise agreement more than doubled in 3 rounds of negotiations that they managed for her.

Which union would you recommend for me? Similar job role

I hope so! It would be appalling, which is kind of why I don't want to believe it.

Nope. I think anyone has a right to express an opinion.
I'd be pretty horrified if they were at one of TR's "protect the cenotaph" kind of events but that's cos I'm more left wing.

If they were protesting "Let Women Speak" I'd find that pretty outrageous in a similar way. But it's still up to them.

Anyone doubting this is very ill informed. The union vote ensured that a mild, much watered down motion to protect women wasn't discussed at Scottish Labour's recent conference. The CLPs supported it being put to the conference, the union block vote vetoed it.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5009096-scottish-labour-conference-this-weekend-pro-woman-motions-up-for-vote

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5011009-scottish-labour-rejects-sex-based-rights-motion-backed-by-womens-conference-and-most-clps

By that token, Unions also have a 'right' to argue that managers should have total power over employers and all employment laws should be done away with, and to go to demos promoting this. But that would rather be out of keeping with their purpose as a Union.

They exist to promote their members interests in the workplace. They Unions are not there as individuals with a 'right' to opinions on what they like. They should only be speaking on issues within their remit, and certainly not opposed to their remit. Protesting against women speaking about their basic rights is definitely not in keeping with that.

(As an example, I have in a work situation spoken with Unions in relation to initiatives to get people into work and they quite rightly replied that their focus was really on people already within work, because that is who their members are and their members pay them to represent their interests as workers. So they sure understood keeping within the limits of their remit there).

Well, let's see what PCS/unite say. I'm sure the wims will be asking, and posting their response here.

Not for me to say. I chose the stroppiest 😀I also looked for one that seemed to have the least political affiliation where my subs werent going to be very obviously going to fund the Labour Party, who I am not very fond of anymore. Not easy, maybe not even possible. Its not a situation without compromise.

I have a family member in a senior position at GMB and they seem somewhat reasonable (not the one I joined) but, as even he says, their official position is unquestioning support for Labour and that TWAW. I think you may have to look past the ideological capture in the case of unions and focus on the good which they undoubtedly do at the individual case level. I've seen this with my family member, support for junior doctors, better conditions for refuse workers, cotton uniforms for supermarket workers as the menopausal women were suffering in nylon etc. etc. They are also very helpful in sex discrimination cases.

But I totally agree, they shouldn't be taking sides in this sort of thing.

I can just imagine my colleagues suggesting we joined a union! I work in very white collar roles. It's not really the done thing, in fact many people hate the whole idea.

Putting aside the condescension, if this is the case, how do you have the time to be constantly on MN lecturing us horny handed daughters of toil?

Unite and UCU flags very prominent in this video from the TRA protest:

https://twitter.com/rs21Edinburgh/status/1776696389658968129

Tweet from the vice-president of UCU Scotland here, so presumably it's the union's official position to oppose women speaking about women's rights:

https://twitter.com/gbuttars/status/1776617824397447581

Screenshot of last tweet

Oh, that guy...

Let’s see what is at the bottom of this rabbit hole (socialistdemocracy.org)

I'm thinking of writing to PCS and asking (a) whether they were at the protest (b) was this an official act and (c) if so, why the fuck I should continue to pay them when they're actively working against my rights.

Where would be best to send that? I am feeling a bit of trepidation about outing myself as GC but it feels like the time has come.

Seriously. You're coming up with excuses why you personally can't join a union but having a go at other people who leave unions?

Anyway...https://www.theworkersunion.com/why-join-a-union/

People weren't protesting as individuals, they were representing the unions so you're kind of missing the point. Yes everyone can speak about what they want to but no, some institutions have a remit which means that protesting against women's rights is not OK. There appears to be a vested interest in convincing people that 'there's nothing to see here'. Perhaps it's hard to fully accept just how bigoted some major institutions are and how much they will throw women under the bus to protect or enhance male privilege.

I'm a solicitor (a profession not known for union membership, as there isn't one for us). I joined Affinity due to a previous employer becoming an utter horror to work for as I thought I might need their help at some point.

Even though I've left now, I've kept my membership going as you just never know.

The same way you horny handed daughters of toil manage to find the time to post I imagine 😂

What a strange turn of phrase, a wee bit classist as well

Thank you, I'll have a closer look at some

"Horny handed sons of toil" is a well know phrase in left wing politics. I'm surprised you've not heard of it Adam. Given its origins are Victorian, yes they are likely to be "classist".