PCS - civil service union - and Unite - protest against women's rights event in Edinburgh

[ArabellaScott]

Images from Susan Dalgety.

The event was of course 'Let Women Speak' at the mound.

Why were PCOS and Unite protesting against it?

https://twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1776588747368177981/photo/1

AdamRyan is once again trying to suggest that being 'right wing' is the reason that there are so many criticisms of unions. What Adam fails to understand, no matter how many times they've had it explained, is that many of us used to be in the Labour Party; used to be in trade unions, have been active in 'Left'' politics - but once you realise how much the Left has been captured by american style identity politics generally and gender ideology specifically, it is impossible to look at progressive/left activism in the same way again.

Furthermore, many people have been treated appallingly by their local constituency parties and trade unions - for maintaining their grip on sex based reality. And once you see the shadow and its consequences you can never again see it as morally pure; and you also start to find critique of many other of the Left's shibboleths and articles of faith.

It is akin to distancing yourself from a religious cult. When you are in the cult you cannot see its shape, nor observe its practices clearly. It is only when you leave, or are ejected, that your ability to analyse its failings becomes more acute.

Don’t the teaching unions always have their conferences during the Easter holidays? That usually accounts for a rise in profile of unions in general. Other unions don’t like the teaching ones getting the publicity and start speaking up!

Reports that UCU was also there. Unsurprising, given their history regarding silencing feminists in the past few years.

A tweet from a PCS member:

'As a member of PCS I have had it clarified that PCS did not condone this. This was an individual carrying a rogue PCS flag, and we are unable to say if she is even a member of PCS.'

So PCS need to make a statement to clarify.

https://twitter.com/peskywoman/status/1776888827690291387

There is a photo on Twitter apparently of a UCU flag at the event on the anti-let-women-speak side of the fence. https://twitter.com/thespiralquirk/status/1776717922322260026

No. Unions are always tricky. And we all know there are large elements of the Conservative party that would love to get rid of them because they are quite pesky in terms of protecting workers rights.

I'm private sector so no union for me but there's been several occasions in the last couple of years where I'd really have benefited from support and not having to deal with employment issues alone.

I think trade unions are very important in protecting people at work. They usually reflect their members views and are very democratic.

Therefore I'm surprised to see so many posts focussed on demonising them and suggesting members leave. A better way to deal with them would be for more GC members to join and influence policy. Try to get into the leadership roles themselves.

I have been a union member for most of my working life. I'm not 'demonising' the ones I've been with (including Unite), I'm saying straight up they're not fit for purpose. In my sector, women are leaving unions in droves as the unions don't understand the basics of what we do and take our subs with very little to show for it. Both ACAS and CAB have proven to be far better defenders of our rights than the unions who are simply uninterested in us.

It's very easy to say 'ooh, I'm not in a union but you really should support them' when you're not paying union fees out of your already not great pay.

Not to mention that your fees are no longer going towards addressing the class struggle but rather to supporting this abject nonsense.

If you set up a donation to a cat charity and they segue into being an arms dealer, “cats still need protection” isn’t much of an argument for continuing your donations.

👏👏👏

Exactly. Many of us are union members and have legitimate concerns about them.

I'm NEU rep at my school. Not demonising Unions just horrified by how they are behaving.

Being private sector doesn’t mean “no trade union for me”. It means taking the initiative to protect yourself and your fellow workers by joining a union yourself, inviting your fellow workers to join it too, and then campaigning for formal trade union recognition in your workplace.

Do you imagine that Amazon invited its workers to join GMB?

A better way for you to protect yourself in the workplace, given the problems you say you’ve faced, would be to join a union and influence your workplace policy.

https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/amazon-new-strike-dates

You call it "demonising". The rest of us call it exercising critical thinking and democratic debate.

As a member of the NEU for many years I'm fully aware of their good work in supporting members - and how easily they can get side tracked when activists of many types use the union to promote their personal political causes.

A teaching union that openly dismisses DfE guidance, promotes children changing sex in school and that being kept secret from parents is dangerous. Dangerous to children but also to many NEU members who will know that they would have no support from a trans captured union.
Of course they're right to consider looking for an alternative politically neutral union if the NEU behaves in such an unprofessional manner.

Getting back to the topic of the thread - the marvellous Dennis Kavanagh spotted the usual homophobic / lesbophobic slurs being aimed at women yesterday by protesters:

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1776622562761465947

Unions were born out of the private sector, when private businesses were not paying their workers a living wage.

I am a member of PCS, my local branch are sensibly focused on pay and working conditions.

Just in case anyone is foolish enough to believe unions aren't relevant in the private sector, they have to be recognised by employers if they represent a large enough proportion of employees.

www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/statutory-recognition

“What Adam fails to understand, no matter how many times they've had it explained, is that many of us […] used to be in trade unions

I’m still in one, because they are fighting for better pay and conditions.

It does annoy me that they are wasting any money on pernicious campaigning for something I very much doubt their members support in any great numbers.

And of course this topic has not been discussed or voted on. As always, it’s been brought in, top down and under the radar. The pattern is very clear.

Certain unions are very radicalised and always have been, and not really that democratic - in that many members do not even vote on issues such as strike action. In fact, during the last round of teacher's strikes many members did not even receive a ballot paper.

My father always used to talk about bullying and intimidation in unions - where men are called 'scabs' if they choose to work rather than strike and they were also intimidated into voting a certain way.

My daughter says many fellow teachers in her school felt obliged to strike last year - because they were in the NEU - even though they didn't personally want to. My daughter carried on working throughout - and the school she is at has a commitment to staying open in most circumstances - since it is in an area of high deprivation in which school is increasingly beeing seen as optional by many pupils and their parents.

Oh here we go 🙄
Fine. Just making a point. Let's get rid of the trade unions, they are captured. While we are at it, let's get rid of the EA and the wokey courts. What could possibly go wrong?

😂
I can just imagine my colleagues suggesting we joined a union! I work in very white collar roles. It's not really the done thing, in fact many people hate the whole idea.

But thanks for using amazon warehouses as an example! 😂

You’ve just been advised to

• join a trade union;

• encourage your fellow workers to also join;

• campaign for that trade union to be given formal recognition in your workplace.

The ONLY person on this thread arguing for trade unions to be scrapped is you.

edited for typo

I am applying "critical thinking". I'm "critically thinking" about why several anti union posts appeared in short succession.

I'm "critically thinking" about who benefits if females are encouraged to leave TUs because they are "captured". Who are the winners and who are the losers from that?

It's all quite interesting to think about critically.

Okay. Enough’s enough. Time to withdraw my membership. Any civil service unions that aren’t captured?

Seriously, even putting the captured part aside, why should the women of my sector pay money out of their wages to a union which doesn't know the absolute basics about the sector? And I mean nationally recognised job titles/job descriptions rather than anything obscure.

Really. Why?

Fair enough.

Standing out from the crowd isn’t for everyone.

Trade union activism isn’t for everyone.

No one on FWR expects anyone to put their head above the parapet in the workplace if they don’t feel comfortable doing so.

Oh, and thanks the patronising laughcry emoji, by the way, much appreciated.

Joining a trade union for me personally would be very difficult. I work in professional services. We don't have TUs. We sell our souls to our employers for ££. (We also get to do really great work with really difficult business problems for big customers).

Unions can't do much for one or two members, unfortunately I work in an industry where its going to be extremely difficult to persuade others to join.

I would encourage members of the PCS/NEU etc to think about the benefits they get out of being in such powerful unions and whether leaving is the most effective way to make a change.