PCS - civil service union - and Unite - protest against women's rights event in Edinburgh

[ArabellaScott]

Images from Susan Dalgety.

The event was of course 'Let Women Speak' at the mound.

Why were PCOS and Unite protesting against it?

https://twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1776588747368177981/photo/1

lifeturnsonadime · Today 15:53

There are cases whether they refuse to support employees, even after sub payments are consistently made, and claims by employees against their union are not unheard of. I've been involved in a few.

Didn't Kathleen Stock's union more or less turn on her and join in the harassment?

Are you a member sinner? I did look but they said:

We can reach agreement or take action to achieve the best outcomes for our members. We are a democratic organisation, and we act according to what our members want.

In the past year we have won some significant pay awards for our members in several workplaces. But to do this we need strength in numbers and so talking to colleagues about issues and asking them to join Prospect is vital!

There is no way I'm talking to my colleagues about unions! They already think I'm a lefty weirdo!

No one (other than you) has said get rid of trade unions or the EA.

AdamRyan · Today 15:57
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Are you a member sinner? I did look but they said:

No, but I did look into it, some years back. In my industry, anyone complaining without the support of the HSE in an investigation just quietly runs out of work.

I'm not purity spiralling I just think you're being a bit hypocritical and unwilling to respect other people's experiences

You've made your choice to sell out for ££ and not be in a union. That's your choice, and I get why someone would make that decision

There are women on here who have direct recent experience of public sector unions, that you don't. They say its not working for them. I just think you should respect their choices.

Yes. It belays what appears to be an unreflective stance and a difficult with actually seeing things from any other perspective. Any time anyone resorts to 'you must all be right wing' insinuations, I log that person as someone who potentially has difficult stepping outside of their own experience.

Absolutely, and that's why I paid into one for 20 years, as insurance to protect myself and others should we need it.

However the main reason I could see myself needing it was if I got into trouble re GC views, and they'd already been actively hostile to Kathleen Stock and made it clear they were very pro self ID. So not much good as insurance!

Another reason for leaving (I forgot number iv!) was that I no longer supported most of their strikes, but I felt it was unfair to the union and other members if I kept voting no to their strikes or failing to join the strike. So if I no longer agreed with either their strike action or their policies, it seemed fairer to both them and me if I left.

I think trade unions are very important in protecting people at work. They usually reflect their members views and are very democratic.

Speaking as a former union convenor, hahaha! You know fuck all about unions Adam

Have you ever considered that your stance provokes people to make points, on purpose, to counter yours, which is what i've already suggested several times.

Old Lefties tend to known Lefties very well.......that's why you get so much push back. Because your positions are often ones that were moved on from some time ago - in the light of life and experience. The biggest critic is often one that knows and understands that which it criticises very well.

I think the protection of a Union is a bit like insurance- worth it should you find yourself in a position where you need it. Hope that doesn't sound patronising

No-one in their right mind would continue to pay insurance premiums to a company that would not help them when they need it, would they? So why should women pay union subscriptions knowing their union will not act in their interests or support them? Women are not getting what they pay for or were promised yet they should continue to pay up?

On the subject of the thread do you @AdamRyan have any comment to make on the unions being represented at this particular event being against women speaking? Do you consider them to be guilty by association for being on the same side as those who were holding those homophobic/rape culture signs? Or are they somehow not tainted as the rule only works one way?

Still no union condemnation of homophobia displayed at Edinburgh protest. Shame on them!

I'm a bit confused to be honest. What I see from op is a picture of two flags - a PCS one and a Unite one. There was also this demonstration very nearby, I remember reading some stuff before it happened about the potential for the two protests to be mixed up.

https://twitter.com/scottishpsc/status/1776006930995220644

PCS have a strong position regarding Gaza

https://www.pcs.org.uk/news-events/news/pcs-statement-israel-gaza

So do Unite

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/november/unite-calls-for-an-immediate-ceasefire

So I wonder if actually the flag bearers were there for the Israel/Eurovision event and whoever took the photo has put 2 and 2 together to make 5. That makes more sense to me than two massive unions protesting "let women speak", knowing they have GC members.

Its good publicity for LWS/KJK though. The protests do help her get her events/messages into the media.

Wasn't that protest at Waverley Bridge? Not a huge distance away but there's a whole section of Princes Street Gardens between the two and they both started at 1pm.

I dont know edinburgh all that well but would assume from what I remember that protesters from each side would use the gardens as their route to the events and might pass each other to get to/from either event.

And like I say, I remember reading some concerns about the proximity of them.

I am not saying that to deny there were protesters at KJK event (of course there were) but just as an alternative, slightly less controversial explanation.

The picture in the website attached probably shows it best. Waverley Bridge would be behind you, then there's fencing, then there's this full section of Princes Street Gardens and then the plinth is the space between the two galleries on the upper level. From Waverley Bridge, you'd either have to come through the Gardens and up the stairs to get up to the Mound or come from the front/side on the Princes Street side.
www.whatsoninedinburgh.co.uk/listings/princes-street-gardens/

The protests wouldn't have been cheek to cheek.

I mean, you could skirt through the Mound to get to Princes Street Gardens to go past the Scott Monument but if it was full of people, you'd be far more likely to go in at Scott's Ice Cream stand or walk along Princes Street. To get into the plinth area, you'd be going to a specific area of the Mound - you wouldn't be using it as a walk through.

I am not saying that to deny there were protesters at KJK event (of course there were) but just as an alternative, slightly less controversial explanation.

The union flag carrying protesters were photographed in the area of the trans activists protesters, with those protesters, part of that group by someone attending the LWS event, am I taking it that you dispute their version of events?

And having looked more closely at the photos in the OP, I've marked approximately where the union reps were standing. PCS is in red, Unite in blue.

PCS might conceivably have just been passing through. At a push. Unite were definitely not just passing through.

(Edit, not a photo of the event. Photo taken from Edinburgh Guide as an illustration)

Gardens were closed. Protesters were allowed to stand immediately beside LWS barriers on 2 of the 4 sides. In the Mr Menno video, where he is challenging the protesters with the despicably homophobic signs, the protesters are standing directly behind the barrier of the enclosure. The ones with sirens and loudhailers were right beside the entrance to LWS enclosure, probably about 50 yards from speakers.

The Palestine protest was beside Waverley Station and remained there. There was no overlap.

Thanks 334bu - that knocks on the head the 'they were just passing through!!' argument.

From Sex Matters, last year:

https://sex-matters.org/posts/freedom-of-speech/should-a-civil-service-union-promote-harassment-and-discrimination/

Perhaps Unite were just walking the dog, PCS were nipping past on the way to get some milk, and UCU had popped out for a loaf of bread?

I find the outright denial that of what these unions have done at this event absolutely bizarre.

What I'm not clear on is whether Adam think that it is OK for unions to protest against a KJK event because her events are far right (bad) and unions are left (good)?

Or whether Adam thinks that unions protesting against women speaking is OK because men's rights should be at the forefront of women's 'rights' in the workplaces (see single sex spaces)

Or whether Adam is just concerned generally that the 'left' and Labour 'the unions' are pissing women off by their lack of a clear definition of what a women is, our rights, and the fact that our rights are less important to any of the left (as enshrined by the current Labour Party) than the rights of men and that we are noticing?

I caught bits of what a couple of the TRA speakers were saying, because their volume was so loud. At least 1 speaker wittered on about their trade union experience and how that means they are speaking for " the people" or something similar that sounded out of"Citizen Smith". Presumably trying to prove their ideological purity and justify drowning out women rather than trying to improve working conditions for their members.