Will Labour introduce Self ID & curb free speech?

[Heylo]

I’ve never voted Tory, but as a lesbian woman who plans to have children (and obviously as a woman!) I am and will be part of the three groups most affected by Gender Ideology; women, lesbian and soon I hope a Mother. I am really worried about what happens when Labour takes power. The Tories have been rubbish no arguments there but at least they are finally moving against the steam rolling of Gender Ideology. I’m thinking Labour are not that fiscally different to the Tories and have said they will not cap bankers bonuses and they don’t intend to increase public spending in a significant way.

Really concerned about more gender identity clinics popping up under Labour and Keir Starmer possibly curbing free speech via so - called hate laws (in the feminist circle i run in we all agree this is a euphemism for silencing women about men in female prisons, rape shelters and other areas where women are vulnerable).

wonder what everyone else thinking?

I would've held my nose and voted Labour some time ago, because I thought it might not be that bad and it would be worth it to get total opposition to the Tories.

Now I'm not sure Starmer has the guts to be sensible about it AND they are looking more and more like the Tories every day. It's bloody depressing.

Fund the nhs, fund schools, stop pretending there's another definition of woman that you just haven't got time to tell everyone at the moment but you definitely know what it is and it's not sexist honest not at all.

Now I'm not sure Starmer has the guts to be sensible about it AND they are looking more and more like the Tories every day. It's bloody depressing.
Really? How?
The Tories are running around wittering about the deep state, a lefty take over, Islamists running London, no go areas in Birminham etc. I haven't heard anything like that from Labour.

Some of this should be so easy shouldn't it? Limping back over that bloody golden bridge, making some clear statements about child safeguarding, Cass, the role of schools to educate and not transition children and competing rights that must be recognised (and a promise to stop bullying women for speaking).

Schools are not "transitioning children". That is scaremongering.

Affirmative only approaches are part of the transaction process.

Schools are doing the roll of affirmative only approaches on a daily basis. How can you say they ARE NOT transitioning children?

Indeed. there's plenty of evidence that schools have overreached - being a Stonewall diversity champion signs them up to all this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12880675/Ministers-warned-new-trans-guidance-LAW-activist-schools-immediately-vow-ignore-pleas-tell-parents-children-want-switch-gender.html

Apologies for the Guardian link but it's important as it records teachers completely misrepresenting how safeguarding works in schools and insisting that sharing information with parents is wrong - despite safeguarding legislation law being specific that only the courts can remove parental rights / responsibilities.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/23/teachers-warn-new-gender-guidance-for-english-schools-could-put-children-at-risk

Sorry - didn't mean to derail this onto schools - just wanted to provide evidence about the dire situation in some (not all) schools

Yes. Many of these things are utterly unremarkable and sensible. So why don't they do them?

You keep saying this. There's a long-time poster who has detailed exactly that this is what is happening to their child over the years. I'm not going to speak for them but please do try and realise that you can't know every parent's situation.

Oh unless you think "transitioning" is synonymous with surgery. As if that's somehow anything to do with changing gender.

"Overreaching" =/= transitioning children though.
I think you are right to be concerned but language is important and saying "the role of schools to educate and not transition children" makes it sound as if schools have abandoned a core principle (education) and instead turned into Frankenstein's trans factory. Which is not true, even if some schools have done things some parents don't like.

Really concerned about more gender identity clinics popping up under Labour and Keir Starmer possibly curbing free speech
They'll only curb the speech of some. To paraphrase 'Penis-haver good, non penis haver- bad'

No comment on the likelihood of the Conservatives supporting lesbian mothers then? Surprising

Schools have socially transitioned children without informing parents. As Cass notes, this is not a neutral act.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/schools-let-children-change-gender-without-telling-parents/

There is plenty of evidence of this, hence the entire issue with school guidelines.

"Schools have socially transitioned children" is a sentence where schools is an active noun and children is a passive noun. It Implies the schools are responsible for the transition and the children are being "done to".

"Schools let children change gender" is the opposite. It implies the children are driving the change and schools are allowing it.

The latter is accurate. That's a problem and needs addressing.

The former is inaccurate, overly emotive and therefore in my opinion scaremongering.

Some schools definitely are encouraging it; certainly if they have a LGBTQ+ lunchtime club.

At my daughter's teacher training school one trans identified teacher was suggesting to girls "they might be trans".

It's hard to know what's best isn't it.
When I was at school (section 28 era) there wasn't a single out gay person. There must have been a lot of miserable students. I think its a positive thing that schools can have clubs for gay kids.

At risk of sounding like a broken record, i think trying to ban transition at school is only going to make (some) teenagers more likely to want to do it. I'm glad I'm not a teacher. Who would want the job in today's climate where you can't do right for doing wrong

Schools let children change gender

If you think this is literally the problem, I don't think you've understood at all. Please read the threads about it. A large part of it is actively keeping many actions secret from parents. As I said, I don't want to talk for the other poster but it's not just calling a girl "him" or allowing girls to wear trousers (i don't even know many schools where that doesn't happen anyway).

It's not "ban transition", it's complaining against what is actually happening in schools which directly contradicts safeguarding good practice.

I can't tell if you genuinely don't know or are pretending.

Being gay is fine. S28 was wrong in my opinion. But agreeing with kids that their bodies are wrong because of who they are? Yeah, that needs looking at.

I think we will see more crackdowns on freedom of speech from Labour under the guise of hate speech / hate crime laws. Other “Liberal” nations including Canada and Ireland are attempting to bring in pretty draconian legislation and I think Labour will potentially follow suit. There isn’t much money in the pot for them to achieve genuine social change but cracking down on “hate” is a cheap way for them to show how virtuous they are.

Also I suspect that we will get self-ID in all but name. They will make it super easy so that a doctor’s letter and a signed declaration will allow you to get a GRC. The only positive is that I think it’ll be 18 plus so it won’t make it anymore difficult for schools than it already is.

I'm talking specifically about the different connotations of the language used to describe the situation, not my understanding of the situation.

I did some reading from links on another thread and could not see that this was an intentional practice in school, more there was a lot of hyperbole and bad research. I assume the government found much the same given how weak their guidance ended up being.

If you want to continue buying into a conspiracy theory that all public institutions have been "captured" and "stonewalled" into transborg factories, that's fine. I think its a huge overstatement of the problem.

Here is a short article on the situation in Ireland…

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hate-speech-bill-is-restrictive-and-undemocratic-warns-barrister-as-7000-people-sign-petition/a1608824054.html

Its difficult to know what exactly Starmer will do as he says very little, and what he does say is almost certainly a lie (he got voted in on the platform of carrying on Corbin's agenda, now whatever you think of Corbin, Starmer was cynically lying his ass off).
I do think though that he is committed to Gender Ideology and will bring in some kind of self ID, and not just because of the very many adherents in the party. For whatever reason there is a deep commitment to Gender Ideology among powerful institutions here and in the US and Starmer is very much a 'deep state' man. (if you look at his work in the Mcliable case or the murder of Ian Tomlinson, Starmer has always covered the Polices ass, and I strongly suspect he was an ACPO man from university days.

I also am also shocked at the idea of voting Tory (I cant actually vote where I am anyway so wont actually be voting for anyone) but you are spot on in identifying there is zero practical difference in current Labour party policy and Tory ideology in regards to social conditions for the majority of people.
In fact I would go so far as to say the Tories might actually be a slightly better bet when it comes to the NHS and social spending, as they are constrained by their reputation in a way Starmer is not.

What Starmer is also certain to do is bring in laws limiting free speech. He is not a fan of free speech in any circumstances (Assange anyone?) and will certainly use BE KIND! as an excuse to limit all kinds of protest and inquiry.

He is bad new all round. Please don't vote Labour.

if you look at his work in the Mcliable case or the murder of Ian Tomlinson, Starmer has always covered the Polices ass

Can I ask how Starmer covered the police’s arses in the McLibel case? I’ve read quite a bit about that case and can’t work out the connection.

ArabellaScott · Today 08:15

There is plenty of evidence of this, hence the entire issue with school guidelines.

I detect a fishy whiff and "Arp! Arp!" noises.