Will Labour introduce Self ID & curb free speech?

[Heylo]

I’ve never voted Tory, but as a lesbian woman who plans to have children (and obviously as a woman!) I am and will be part of the three groups most affected by Gender Ideology; women, lesbian and soon I hope a Mother. I am really worried about what happens when Labour takes power. The Tories have been rubbish no arguments there but at least they are finally moving against the steam rolling of Gender Ideology. I’m thinking Labour are not that fiscally different to the Tories and have said they will not cap bankers bonuses and they don’t intend to increase public spending in a significant way.

Really concerned about more gender identity clinics popping up under Labour and Keir Starmer possibly curbing free speech via so - called hate laws (in the feminist circle i run in we all agree this is a euphemism for silencing women about men in female prisons, rape shelters and other areas where women are vulnerable).

wonder what everyone else thinking?

You know undermining public systems (like schools and education) and eroding trust in experts (like teachers) is one of the hallmarks of fascism, right?

You know it's also one of the hallmarks of communism? Also that control of education and separation of child from parent is also a tactic of those on the far right and the far left. It is not just fascists who seek to undermine systems of power, control children and separate them from their parents.

I've never voted Conservative & I can't see that I'm likely to, so tbh the internal politics of the Tories are less of my concern beyond what they actually do in power. Anderson is awful, but to pretend there isn't a problem in Labour with racists (and indeed misogynists) suggests you either haven't been paying attention or you have no long term experience of local Labour politics (I have).

Specifically in relation to gender politics, all the intimidation I've come up against, at Women's Place meetings etc has come from organised demonstrations from the left. Identifiable as such, and generally very proud of being on the left.

Actually no, you’re wrong. Children aren’t telling parents or are threatening suicide because they’ve been groomed online. And you tagging ‘phobic’ on the end of everything doesn’t make anyone sympathise with the hideous sacrificing of children by trans- ideology.

the game is up.

When we have Jews screaming for death to muslims on our streets; or threatening to shut down parliament; or when teachers have to go into hiding because they've inadvertently offended the sensibilities of the Jewish community, then maybe we could talk about equivalence with Islamists.

When was the last murder of an MP in Britain carried out by a Jew or even 'a zionist'? Which group is it that calls out Fatwahs on people and stabs authors in the face when on stage?

That Labour is trying to draw equivalence between anti semitism and being critical of Islamism ( which is responsible for all of the above and more) is downright manipulative.

Really good point. And made in the Telegraph article on JKR in a parallel way.

Bloody awful behaviours, values and ideologies are a cross party issue. They are not any better when being done by a socially high value group such as TQ+ or left wing parties. They are symptomatic of bloody awful extremist politics on both left and right.

And it's going to take cross party sanity to throw out these awful ways of thinking and behaviours and go back to what is right.

I live in the city; am an ex Labour party member: I like to take photographs of urbanism and urban events; and I was listening to women speak.

What is eroding education and teacher's mental health is very badly behaved pupils, and parents who don't support the school in its attempts to enforce discipline and boundaries, but who make complaints against teachers instead.

You think Hilary Cass is one of 'your lot'?

Are you actually saying secretly transitioning children behind parents' backs is 'unquestionably the right thing to do', or have I misunderstood? Because that's quite a surprising assertion.

I can't see what the problem is here.

The NHS is desperately underfunded. Its certainly not funded enough to give everybody everything they think they need to make them happy.

It's debatable whether it should be funding IVF for anyone. But a couple who haven't achieved a pregnancy after two years of regular sex do at least have a medical problem.

A lesbian couple don't.

A rule that only infertile people are eligible to have fertility treatment paid for by taxpayers is not discrimination.

@AdamRyan

Hang on a minute so is it the case that Tories removing the whip from Andersson over racist remarks is evidence that the Tories are racist. And Labour blocking the Rochdale candidate over racist remarks is evidence that Labour are tackling racism?

Well worth a read and yes, probably a thread.

We ought to know who political parties are working for. And understand that for the most part it's not the electorate.

I’m wondering how a thread about Self ID and freedom of speech under Labour has descended into an argument about whether or not schools are pushing trans ideology onto children under a Tory government. Is there a link or is this a massive derail?

FWIW my gut feeling is that yes Labour will "streamline" the GRC process so that it may as well be self ID. But no they won't implement overly restrictive hate speech laws that undermine free speech. I think they can get the members on board with the 1st but not the 2nd.

It's a massive derail. There's a lot of it about.

Back to the OP Labour's draft policy already states they'll extend 'hate crime' legislation, make the GRC process easier and bring in a trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban.

Hmmmm. I think after the election it's you lot for whom the game is up.

Why do you think the game will be up? Is it because you think Labour will bring in such draconian legislation that women will no longer be able to lawfully speak about women's rights and safeguarding of children without receiving a criminal conviction? Do you think the silencing of women is likely to work in the long run?

Your obsession with discipline and boundaries is what makes your movement fascistic. The job of teachers is to educate, not to make children learn to submit to 'authority.' That's the real totalitarianism.

What generally happens when a captive population gets really, really pissed off?

The plan - about ten years ago - was to be firm with women and they'd know their place, shut up and get used to it.

How is that going so far?

And wtf is wrong with someone who thinks 'the time will be up' for LGB people, women's rights, child safeguarding, access and inclusion of minority groups and women being raped by disturbed men locked in prisons with them and does not have a problem with this?

It's right up there with miaowing at judges.

Bit of a weird response. "It's not unregulated online 'advice' and content whose 'game will be up', it's you parents who are interested in what your kids are doing". Definitely nothing suspect about that position.

Slow hand clap

"Will nobody think of the people who don't want children to develop boundaries." Bit of a red flag you're flying there mate.

'Hate' meaning saying things that are heretical to your beliefs like 'that person is a man'?

Spoiled papers don’t get read out. They’re put in a box and verified as spoiled by the supervisor and counted. There’s a lot of talk about “hating the lot of them, going to spoil my ballot paper” but when push comes to shove the number of voters who do so is absolutely tiny.

Hilary Cass has been 'captured' by you lot.

Children should be free to socially transition at school without their parents knowledge. It should be a place where they can explore their identities without parental interference.