My son can tell...

[allthevitamins]

Watching 'Inside the Factory' on BBC1 with DS, 10.

Cherry Healy was talking about lightbulbs with Dr Clara Barker, Materials Scientist.

Please note this is not personal in relation to Dr Baker.

Dr Barker is Transwoman.

DS says, 'is that a lady?'.

I say no, it's a man.

We left it at that.

I mean Dr Barker is quite feminine.

But unprompted, my DS knew that Dr Barker is not a woman.

Why should I have to lie to him about this?

That's really interesting @akkakk.

The new draft guidelines for schools are throwing up some really challenging issues about pronouns / compelled speech and the rights of children to grow up in an honest and open environment. How do we navigate these adult fantasies and beliefs for children? Ideally we shouldn't have to as we should have protected them from this age inappropriate stuff. But that horse bolted some years ago.
Now society is slowly trying to roll back on the harm that socially transitioning young children is doing - both to the individual and other children around them. And for schools who are completely Stonewall captured, transitioning children in secret from parents, tranactivist teachers running LGBT etc groups it will be especially challenging.

The safeguarding fails have been immense - it's not going to be simple to reinstate all this.

Agree.

Dr Barker is not remotely feminine IMO.

Sounds like you've dealt with it brilliantly: true, to the point, not at all preachy!
It is very difficult. I have a neurodivergent DD and the fact that this stuff is everywhere makes me terrified for her. There are such clear links between neurodiversity and accepting this massively damaging nonsense. Quite aside from the safeguarding issues with lying to children about what a man or woman is.
Hopefully it will have died down a bit by the time your DS reaches a more vulnerable age.

Please take the time to read the OP's second post, which is what I was replying to.

@Emotionalsupportviper

That would be "encountering in real life".

Yes, it would. Which is exactly what happened with the OP and her son. Again, I invite you to read the OP's second post.

In the UK certainly, support groups etc for people with DSDs have repeatedly stated that they are NOTHING to do with transgenderism, and have repeatedly asked the TRAs not to drag them into the argument as evidence that people can change sex.

I'm going to copy and paste what I replied to you before, in the comment that you have just quoted: "Not sure why you're telling me that people with DSDs are not anything to do with trans people, as I literally said that in my original comment!"

I did raise two different topics btw... one on transwomen in public life generally, and one about the display of the intersex flag on a public building near my home.

Thanks PPs for the support and insights.

I'm just a common-or-garden parent and navigating this stuff is hard, especially as we don't truly see what are DC are told at school, or what they experience from other children along the way. Confidentiality can become mystery can become secrecy (hope not) I fear.

I watched Kemi Badenoch speaking about this in Parliament and I was heartened that it's now a tiny bit more ok for me to say this sort of stuff as it needs saying. She was very clear on safeguarding the 'other' children too... The bystanders, not just those who are gender questioning in some way.

I feel that the 'safeguarding' isn't there for me as an adult... not that I feel at risk, but that somehow I feel pulled into the world of (in this case) the transwoman to validate their experience. What if there we no womeny-women to do this? Then it would be trans... what? Surely children shouldn't be brought into this at the very least?

Very difficult I know.

Also I would add, the transwomen that I have noticed (at least) IRL have all stood out for some reason in terms of their dress... a couple in short PVC skirts, bright colours, low cuts, garish knits. But also because they look like, stand like, walk like and have the mannerisms of men.

How do we know a male is trans if we see them walking down the street? How do we know that person is “living as a woman” rather than a man if it’s not about clothes?

We have seen a lot of photographic evidence that says other wise though! So there's that.

"The GRA's intent is very clear."

Is it? The much touted legal history seems to be all about permitting men to marry men. (And claim a pension at 60 before equalisation).

No idea what the intent is now that they can without a GRC. Is it to make single sex exemptions impossible? That seems to be the most desired and aggressively promoted outcome of "gender recognition".

I'm going to copy and paste what I replied to you before, in the comment that you have just quoted: "Not sure why you're telling me that people with DSDs are not anything to do with trans people, as I literally said that in my original comment!"

And I said I agreed with you.

Fantastic parenting is not grooming your child to engage and participate in adult falsehoods.

I've had my kids ask "why is that man wearing a dress?". And I'll reply "I don't know, because he likes it?", because I don't know if it's a man being trans-identifying, or a man who just likes dresses.

My youngest once saw Lia Thomas on the podium in that infamous photo where he was towering on the 1st place platform and the other "winners" were all posing waaaay off to the side, and she asked, "Why is that man there and those women there?" (and yes, she DID say that, and no, it's NOT made up. KIDS CAN TELL INSTANTLY, like we all can lol).

In theory it’s possible the vast majority of transwomen are as you describe, @ButterflyHatched , and quietly pass under the radar.

I find it unlikely though, given how many I see out and about inappropriately dressed. Given the small proportion of the population that are trans, I should not see so many men dressed ‘like but not like’ women out and about. A chap I saw last year looked like he was on the way to a fetish party. I can’t give a full description as I was driving and needed to concentrate on the road. There were definitely knee high socks of stockings, and a sports bra involved though. It was his aggressive walk that caught my eye, then I wondered what on earth he as wearing before I twigged.
The most appropriately dressed trans woman I saw was a goth. So full scope for dramatic clothes and makeup within the genre.

The transmen I’ve seen have a much harder job. Short hair, jeans, trainers, no make up… How on earth can you make a young woman look they are trying to look like a man?

Being gay was illegal, it was seen as abhorrent. Guess what, it’s not seen that way anymore.

My friend who now calls himself a woman's name disappears off for an hour and a half to shave his entire body, put on makeup, style hair, squeeze into shape wear and top that all off with a dress before he's "a woman" in order to go out with his boyfriend. He doesn't bother at home.

Yeah, no.

If we’re told that trans people are such a tiny group of people - so small in numbers, such a minority, then why are they so disproportionately visible on TV. I can’t even watch Pottery Throw Down without having to have a difficult conversation about Rose.

i know it’s a diversity hire, but it’s tedious to keep trying to explain to the children. I feel guilty enough about the Santa, elf and fairy lies without trying to convince them the 6ft bloke in a dress is a woman with a deep voice.

Regarding being gay being legal in the past...

The difference is:

• Recognising gay people as part of society is acknowledging definable truth (people of the same sex being a couple)

• Recognising gay people as part of society doesn't impinge on anyone else

How do we square this with trans people?

• for a start, being trans- isn't illegal

• how do we define a transperson in any case?

• in recognising trans rights, we're having to 'pretend' (at best) that sex isn't binary and real, and that also humans can change sex to one extent or another

• what 'rights' do transpeople not have now that they want?

• how do we stop trans people's rights impinging on the rights of others (e.g. no compelled speech, women in sports, women's spaces, women's services)

Oh no, not Pottery Throwdown too (I've never watched it, actually I don't watch much TV at all).

As I say... there are a lot of TV execs congratulating themselves on picking the diversity low-hanging fruit here.

does is get tiring being this transphobic?

I'm not transphobic.

I identify as non-transphobic and I refuse to lie to my children about things that could be harmful (see above: safeguarding concerns).

This 'trans people exist' trope:

Of course if 'trans people' means 'people with no heads or bodies', then, no, trans people don't exist.

But if 'trans people' means 'people who think they have changed sex', then, yes, trans people do exist.

So, now, the $64000 question: if 'trans people' means 'people who have actually changed sex', do trans people exist? This question may elicit different responses. Clearly enough, it goes proxy for another question, viz, can people actually change sex?

The answer to this latter question is simply no. But of course that's too obvious. Hence, to muddy the waters and hide behind resulting opacity, we get this nonsense of 'denying existence'.

I don't deny your existence, @ButterflyHatched. I just point out you haven't changed sex. No-one has.

Convince me otherwise. Explain why you think I'm wrong. But please, please, leave off with this 'denying the existence of trans people'. It's just such an obvious tired attempt at fallacious equivocation.

What is the "anti-trans movement"?

I think it’s also apparent that the high grooming and presentational standards that are required for women to be on television are not required for tw. Which is another double standard.

Thank you @negeme, very well put.

Some of these issues are really difficult to articulate.