My son can tell...

[allthevitamins]

Watching 'Inside the Factory' on BBC1 with DS, 10.

Cherry Healy was talking about lightbulbs with Dr Clara Barker, Materials Scientist.

Please note this is not personal in relation to Dr Baker.

Dr Barker is Transwoman.

DS says, 'is that a lady?'.

I say no, it's a man.

We left it at that.

I mean Dr Barker is quite feminine.

But unprompted, my DS knew that Dr Barker is not a woman.

Why should I have to lie to him about this?

They were by and large very quiet, self-effacing individuals who were very aware that they were men, but were uncomfortable with their sexed bodies.

That is quire interesting, I know a couple of men like this, and that's why I sometimes struggle with the anti trans movement.

Thanks all.

Dr Barker was dressed in a fairly plain black dress as far as I could tell. Long hair, jewellery, conventional female name.

But my point is my son could tell. And he wasn't sure what to make of it? I hadn't set him up for it, it wasn't a lesson, an education or a social experiment, just me and my DS watching Sunday night family TV.

I'm concerned that someone, somewhere, someday is going to require me to explicitly or impliedly tell him that men are/can be women. And I think this is dangerous, because it's not true, and I'd have to disagree.

Being pro women and protecting hard fought for women’s spaces, shortlists, facilities isn’t anti anything. Well anti unfairness maybe.

’just because’ you know someone who is sweet as pie doesn’t give the entire male population a green card to do, say and go where they want.

It's not anti-trans, it's pro-women.

who were very aware that they were men
If we can all agree that they are men then there is not such a problem. It's when they insist that TWAW and, even worse, insist that we go along with it too that it gets really problematic. Compelled speech or, rather, compelled lie is not good.

In some ways I think it's helpful to encounter via TV show etc so you can actually discuss rather than them just getting completely indoctrinated at school. Our eldest (10) the other day was saying that people can choose to be a 'they' and I just said, 'Yes, but it doesn't change whether or not they're actually male or female'. I think we need to have these conversations with our kids otherwise they are going to end up believing the nonsense. I agree it is ridiculous that it has come to this.

What solution would you like to ensure you are not forced to have that conversation with your son?

This is nonsense. Trans women are individuals. There is no 'uniform'.

So yes, lots of trans women do wear jeans and a hoodie.

Like most women, what they wear lounging around the house is different to what they wear when they meet a friend for a coffee, which in turn is different to what they might wear on a night out.

you seem to be explaining your thoughts quite well to him it doesn't sound difficult at all. transwomen exist they are not going anywhere its not difficult to explain.

So how does a male demonstrate “living as a woman” as part of getting a GRC?

Agreed - it's so important for us to have these discussions with our children. With too many trusted adults (teachers, NHS staff, even the leaders of political parties) mindlessly parroting TWAW, women can have a penis & other anti fact / science nonsense we need to get in first so that children have the knowledge and understanding to navigate all this.
Still haven't worked out how to explain seemingly rational & intelligent people spouting on about women with penises but I'm sure eventually I'll think of something 😑

I imagine she’d like to be able to answer without worrying that she’s committing a thought crime or indoctrinating her child. If said child goes into school and says out loud that Molly Mae (or indeed Miss Jones) aren’t women, they are men who like to dress up in women’s clothes, said child is likely to get into trouble.

So which is it? Ok to use clear accurate speech and say he’s actually a man who prefers to dress up as a woman? Or must we actually pretend?

Because at the moment the accepted behaviour is to pretend.

I mean you can say "I" don't believe they are women surely a 13 year old boy can understand his mums beliefs ?

It's not mum's belief, though.

It's an observable, provable, scientific fact that a transwoman is a man.

So observable that a small child child can do it, never mind a teenager or an adult.

yes you are right my wording was wrong. I still don't think it difficult to be factual though. yes dear that's a man who thinks and lives as a woman.

thinks they are*

Id never heard of Dr Clara Barker before so had to look for photos............ hes not even vaguely feminine. Very obvious he is a man.

Actually, I don't think putting it that way is accurate, either.
These men neither think nor live as women. Because they are men, so not possible.
I think Mintytea11 had it right:

“I told him they were a man but it made them happy to dress up like a lady and pretend to be one. It’s quite simple just sticking to facts.”

You are confusing "pro-women" with "anti-trans".

We aren't "anti-trans" at all - we just want to protect women and children's safety, privacy and dignity.

However TRAs have deliberately confused the issue by taking the "whoever is not for us is against us" stance, and it just isn't so.

Never heard of this person either. You are correct. Also on the Oxford University official profile there’s one paragraph about the science, which sounds really fascinating, and two about trans. I find that a bit sad really. Why does it need to dominate a person’s profile? It’s anachronistic to “getting on with life quietly” when one’s personal profile is literally built out of the trans identity.

OP's objection seemed to be the very fact that she was 'forced' to have the conversation in the first place. I'm curious what her ideal solution to that forced situation is.

No-one is denying that transwomen exist (thank you for using the prefix, rather than trying to pretend "trans" is an adjective the same way that "blonde", or "tall", or "sporty" is) - even if we wanted to, they are in our faces all the time!

Of course they exist - they are human beings.

And of course they have rights - they have human rights.

There is nothing else to explain, so it really isn't difficult.

What is difficult to explain is why transwomen get free passes to annex women's rights, and place women and children at risk, and take sports places etc away from women.

THAT is FUCKING DIFFICULT to explain!

I think that's quite common ? That the trans aspect is often written about by journalists incessantly with the actual purpose of the presentation / programme etc being obscured? I'm reminded of the John Lewis debacle with their deep dive into all sorts of irrelevant (to the business) aspects of worker's lives led to all sorts of dubious issues and personal vulnerabilities being exposed.

Stop bringing your whole self to work - just bring your professional self.

I did know a transwoman who wore pretty gender-neutral clothes; beside the woman's name the main indicator of "femininity" was the long hair. Combined with a rather masculine personality (admittedly of the "nerdy" type rather than your stereotypical manly man), I rather wondered what the point was.

You'd think, wouldn't you? And yet the actual prime minister gets hounded for being factual on this. Starmer, who most likely will be our next prime minister, under pressure, had to state factual inaccuracies as fact. So no, you can't just casually state twam especially to a child who might repeat this fact in the wrong setting and get hounded for his wrong think.

While waiting for an appointment at GIDS, I was once told a horror story by a fellow trans girl - the much-despised Dr Richard Green (director of the charing cross GIC adult service) wouldn't approve you for treatment on principle if you turned up to an appointment wearing a t-shirt and trousers rather than a dress.

Which was particularly vexing given I'd said goodbye to my betrousered sister that morning and travelled to the Tavi with my betrousered mother on a train alongside many women wearing trousers.

I personally don't think 'living as a woman' has anything to do with wearing trousers.

The whole edifice seems to be built on an attempt to codify the very reasonable principle of 'see whether you will actually be happy with transition for a couple of years before you do anything permanent' in a prescriptive, axiomatic fashion that missed the mark, and I'm glad I more or less bypassed the whole thing by transitioning as a child and thus getting that awkward exploratory phase out of the way while my peers were still exploring theirs.

The GRA's intent is very clear.