Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?

[JazbayGrapes]

I mean, outside GC or radfem circles, i have heard some of the most outrageous things, coming not from the loony left, but seeming well-meaning, semi-conservative women. Like "What is your problem? Can't you just #BeKind?"

1. Re. sports: "A lesson in inclusion and acceptance for a girl is much more valuable than any trophy. Or maybe your daughter should train harder."

2. Re. prisons: "That's easy - don't break the law and you'll have nothing to worry about."

3. Re. homeless shelters: "Imagine being so ungrateful for a roof over your head that you would complaint about trans."

4)Re. public toilets/showers/changing rooms: "If you are such a prude to undress in front of male genitalia, them maybe you should stay home and never go to gyms or swimming pools or etc."

I'm a a loss...

Lol!!!

Does anyone have any sources for the wealth of evidence on transitioning not being a good treatment for gender dysphoria?

People who aren't gender critical are always being asked for sources, often repeatedly, and any provided are ripped to shreds so it's interesting that this comment was left unchallenged. Especially by such unbiased critical thinkers....

Quick search on Google:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

You asked Sinnerboy for sources at 2.45pm this afternoon. It being a Sunday, they may have been busy in the meantime?

I don't know specifically what sources Sinnerboy was referring to but this was a source which came up -

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00358-x

(Edited to sort out the source link as it had initially included highlighted text link)

Interesting, thank you I will have a look.

Thanks I'll take a look.

It's easy to give the benefit of the doubt about sources when you agree with the opinion, isn't it..

I already said that I cannot make it any more obvious. Just re-read what I wrote and maybe think about it for a bit. Otherwise I'm done.

All that stat shows is that a very high proportion of criminals who ID as trans are sex offenders

Do you have a source for this? I'm sure would expect a TRA to back up a sweeping statement like this so I think you should do the same.

MOJ stats.

Thank you.

It's nice to be able to learn a bit more on the topic

Really I think we need to recognise how massive the differences in male and female biology play out in modern society.
Puberty ;
Boys voices occasional go squeaky as their testicles drop. Possibly embarrassing for a year or two .
Girls start bleeding out of their “private parts”. Embarrassing , messy, painful. For 30 years or so.

Boys get hair. Boys can shave, have stubble or full beard depending on fashion.
Boys get muscles. They can do the gym or not bother. Neither option affects anything. Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of California.

Girls get hair .Girls absolutely have to get rid of hair .
Girls get hips and breast . Both need to be the appropriate size according to how they want to be treated in society. Big breasts are “good” but not in the serious workplace obviously.

Adulthood;
Boys turn into men. Get a woman pregnant. Zero change to their body. Change to lifestyle optional.

Girls turn into women. Get pregnant. Literally hosting another being. Feel sick, feel tired, get stretchmarks, give the baby a bit of their brain. Hopefully survive the experience . Stretched, maybe stitched or prolapsed.
Breasts get massive but change from sexual and become food supply. Then shrink and look different.

Middle age

Men get older. Become less strong, lose their hair.

Saggy balls ( because they’re an old bloke and they had great balls in your youth).

Women get older. Stop periods. Weird moods, brain fog . Less strong, more fat, more hair, more pain in joints . Less money because of being pregnant and then staying home with offspring.

Saggy tits (because they’re an old woman and we know it because they now have ugly flat tits).

Transgender trend has good collections of links to evidence/studies/research, with commentary.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

https://www.transgendertrend.com/current-evidence/

Thank you. I will look at this but obviously this site is pretty biased!
I find it quite difficult to find much that isn't biased on this subject.

You may find the site biased but the links go to evidence. Of course, evidence can be cherrypicked. All I can suggest is that you read as widely as possible and draw your own conclusions.

I imagine you've already read the interim Cass Report?

I think the reality is that most of the evidence available is poor quality, suffering from a failure to use appropriate trial methodology, and weakened further by the lack of long term follow-up for something that is a life-long condition.

So it may not be possible to demonstrate that transitioning isn’t a good treatment for gender dysphoria, but there is little to no evidence that it is. Doctors have been acting as if there was unequivocal evidence that transitioning is effective and uncomplicated when there isn’t and that is reckless in the extreme.

There are certainly studies showing that those who’ve undergone medical transition still have much higher suicide rates than the general population. The Swedish study showed that back in 2011.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

There will be more recent studies now, I expect, but I haven’t been keeping up to date as much as I used to.

The question isn't does transitioning work but why people feel gender dysphoric in the first place. Its well documented that men in countries that have made homosexuality illegal have transitioned instead. That would count as a success for trans where in fact the end goal is to become " not a gay man" rather than "woman"
Are men more or less wanting to be female in a place where females have less stereotypical differences in terms of presentation. Are they more or less likely in countries where women have very little social status.

I am done being respectful. Society has made it clear that as a woman I do not matter.

So I see no reason whatsoever that I should respect society.

Other, respectful women have tried, they have tried to debate, carefully and respectfully and look where that has gotten them and us.

No, the time for respect and politeness has passed. Men do not respect women. They do nothing but take. If we want to hold on to ANYTHING for ourselves and our daughters we are going to have to fight for it.

No more kind, nice words and middle ground. It does not work.

I think it's because most people don't have the headspace for this issue. And that's ok. There are loads of things to worry about. Israel-Gaza. Climate Change. Systematic racism. Inequality, cost of living. Health care and education. etc. No doubt some people are very concerned about this, but most people (me included) don't see it as that big an issue. In real life, I know a handful of trans people (not well).

Can I suggest you read the links, not the site? I did. The links leads to actually research and TT just provides the links. Maybe there is research that shows the opposite, research can be setup in such a way that it proves what you want it to prove, but it then get picked apart pretty quickly. I don't think there is research that shows the opposite, even badly put together, because transactivists only refer to very old, badly put together research based on biased surveys and nothing with substance. If they can't find the research, it doesn't exist.

There are loads of things to worry about, yes. Some women have the luxury of not needing (yet) to worry about this one, others are not so lucky and it's mostly more vulnerable/minority groups of women being marginalised and oppressed without it mattering to other women.

The point will come when having lost legal rights and equality and recognition in law will come to be something to worry about for all women, and I anticipate at that point a lot of privileged women getting snotty about 'why didn't someone tell me to say or do something when there was still time to turn this around?'.

And I won't have a lot of sympathy.

I’m GC and I agree with you but none of it affects me on a personal level. I’m not homeless, or in prison and no one I know is competing against trans women in sports. I do care about those who are but frankly the cost of living and battling to work when there are train strikes are bigger problems in my life.

So long as it's just happening to other women then, it's all ok and no one's problem.

Jeez. I feel like the last actual (as opposed to identified as) socialist.

I can just about understand that. What I would say is that this could affect anyone. Healthcare is one of the most deeply affected areas, for example. And then there are the children.

I'm alright Jack (Jackie?)

And as long it's not your child. I didn't know it was going to be mine.