Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

So KJK wasn't lying about Rise at all then.

Why posters on here are spending their time having a scrap with other women who are actually out taking feminist action in the real world, rather than respecting feminists rights to hold a variety of positions but still be working for the good of women.

Why so many people get more offended about "purity spirals" and leftys than the real harm being suffered by women in the UK and globally because of the patriarchy.

Why some fairly unpleasant views of individual women are amplified on here as "listening to women's voices" despite the fact that overall those views are damaging women as a class.

Basic feminism really, but not feminism FWR recognises any more.

What does it explain?

It explains why the usual "fuck off, don't leave me" guilt-trip routine is no longer working on members of this board, no matter how much they are lambasted for being insufficiently left-wing.

Although I've only been posting on FWR for 4 years, I've been a member of MN for 15 years and I come from a family that reads the fucking Morning Star. I don't regard myself as a right-wing interloper, and I'm not going to be guilt-tripped into thinking I don't have a right to care about women's rights.

I have fucked off from the Labour party because of the actions of party members so I don't care about party approval any more.

It may not be platformimg but it’s absolutely going to count as validating. I bet it satisfied KJW in several different ways.

The Pink News article is dated September 2020 and describes events ten years previously in 2010.

“Ending up in Brighton, Sarah was sofa-surfing with friends when someone suggested she contact Rise, a domestic-abuse charity that had an LGBT+ caseworker. Sarah had not medically transitioned; her doctor had referred her to a gender-identity clinic (GIC), but she’d not started hormone therapy or had gender-confirmation surgery.

A few days later, after the charity had done a comprehensive assessment of the danger she was in, Sarah was offered a place in a women’s refuge.”

Sarah Savage was on the telly programme ‘My Transsexual Summer’ (Channel 4, filmed summer 2011 broadcast November 2011, production consultant was Paris Lees). It’s filmed while SS is ‘part time’ and one episode shows Sarah coming out as MtF to SS’s mum (linked film is a short catch up)

According to the Pink News article SS was in women’s DV shelter in Brighton in 2010 (article published 2020, SS claims to have been accommodated ten years prior, so 2010).

So SS was in a women’s shelter before SS ‘came out’? When SS definitely didn’t have a GRC, but very likely no Gender Dysphoria diagnosis either?

I give Rise some benefit of the doubt because Pink News isn’t exactly renowned for accuracy, but if Pink News is correct then no wonder KJK is tweeting about it!

Yes god just reading his it has to be a certain way in the response to you

Tg for all the other women posting

Why posters on here are spending their time having a scrap with other women who are actually out taking feminist action in the real world, rather than respecting feminists rights to hold a variety of positions but still be working for the good of women.

Like the way some feminists treat KJK then?

Yes. It did say that.

Hence I believe KJK’s tweet was referring to that. She tweeted:

“FYI The rape crisis/shelter called Rise includes men as women, unless they've now stopped. So when people champion Sisters Salon for raising money to save a women's shelter this is the one they are talking about.”

I’ve not been politically engaged for the exact reasons demonstrated in this argument.

My parents were party members and campaigned and so on. I saw appalling clannish behaviour where candidates were dumped when a more pleasing specimen came along (usually male). I saw people in both main parties working really hard for constituents, and others who were pants but very successful at party level.

I’ve been very involved at a ground roots level, due to community work. I see conservative councillors working their arses off being slagged off by residents for laziness and sitting in meetings all day. I’ve seen labour councillors jumping critically on their blue colleagues and blaming ’this government’ for everything.
I’m not naturally conservative, I’m a floating voter who’s pissed off with the only decent local candidates being conservative!

I have been disengaged with politics most of my life, despite a keen interest in social justice. Fucking political Process.

Tiresome isn’t it

Going to the effort of splitting the board in two because not to liking then still hanging around to scold

The hypocrisy is unreal

Sorry. Derail. Got a bit triggered by a previous post 😂

Remarkable that KJK flew to NZ where she was physically assaulted by a baying mob, in defence of women’s rights to single sex spaces and that somehow isn’t “taking feminist action in the real world.”

It really is 🤡🌎 today.

I think you are an ideologue; one who believes that only you are pure and righhteous. My experience of your posts is that you tend to have a sneering attitude, and not long ago you even said you were going to report a post of mone for using words or thought forms you didn't approve of, or which contradicted your ideology. That is why I said i was no longer going to engage with you. It feels like you set traps, and when things don't go your way you report to spiteful action.

I'm not sure how aggravation and provocation achieve much at all or further the shared cause?

Banging on about 'the patriarchy' as your ideological enemy doesn't make you more interested in, or valuing of women; or even doing more in your life to support other women.

Fuck sake
Reading the link, Rise referred a trans woman to an LGBTI specific case worker, who then found the TW a space in a shelter accepting trans women.

Should Rise have said to the TW, go away, we don't help men? Would you say the same if they referred a male victim of DV to the men's advice line or a caseworker that supported men?

At the moment there is no legal requirement for all shelters to be female only, its at the discretion of the charity providing the service.

KJK presented the information in a very biased way and I can see why Rise would be offended by that.

Bit weird that some posters are so blinkered in giving a positive view of every single thing she does. Almost like we are in a fan club rather than a neutral space.

I'm not sure how aggravation and provocation achieve much at all or further the shared cause?

It doesn’t. It takes us backwards. Maybe the aim idk but it’s not helping, the opposite in fact

Is she lying? I don’t read it as lying. Is she provocative? seems so. Could she turn this around and say ‘Rise no longer would refer a male person to a female single sex space’? Yes she could, if that was now true.

Is it true that Rise will no longer refer a male to be placed in a female single sex space? I hope so and what a great opportunity it would be to clarify this.

Not a derail at all pickled. I think those who are party members and are really into all this in-fighting and tribalism don’t understand just how off-putting it is for everyone else.

References to my personal life are really low. Thank you MNHQ for the deletions.

Would you say the same if they referred a male victim of DV to the men's advice line or a caseworker that supported men?

Well yeah, obviously, if they placed that man in a women's refuge, as they did in the example provided, I would of course say the same!

I can't believe what I'm reading about advocating for women as a class from a poster who distinguished herself on a thread about Israeli rape victims due to her sociopathy.

I'm logging off for the rest of the morning
I need a shower because I can't take this thread any more.

Ha!
I'm not religious and so the ideas of "pure and righteous" mean nothing to me.
I'm a feminist who wants the world to be a better place for women. When I see posters misrepresenting, lying or otherwise promoting views that will damage women I will engage.

I find your attitude rude, aggressive and intolerant of women from different backgrounds and cultures, but hey ho. You are entitled to hold and communicate those. I strongly believe people should be given a platform to express those views and be prepared to debate them.

I do find it interesting that people who aren't feminist are drawn to post on a board professing to be for feminists. And it makes me reflect on the quote about the overlap between GC spaces and different types of non feminist groups.

@AdamRyan I'm trying to remember if I have ever read any post from you that hasn’t been a criticism of other people’s posts?

Do you ever contribute your own thoughts or take part in a discussion to learn from other people and from the conversation, or do you only post to declare how other people are wrong?

Maybe you do the joining in but under a different username, or maybe I only notice when you are scolding in which case I apologise.

I don’t see any discrepancy between @RebelliousCow and her posting on this board. I’m glad she does