Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 7

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email
[email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21😇
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager

Witness for JP:

SE - Professor Sarah Earle, Head of the HWSRA

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

Thread 6 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4921308-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-6

SJ: I manage case and give advice and support to all parties involved. Everybody.

BC: You don't make decisions.

SJ: No. Have to remain impartial. Just give advice on risks, benefits, options

BC- Onto timescales and processes of grievance procedures. Your role is an admin one?
SJ - yes and give advice on risk, benefits and options but I have to remain impartial and don't get involved in outcomes

Why have we not seen more witnesses for Jo?

No need. The OU witnesses are doing an excellent job of making her case.

BC: The day JP made complaint it was sent to people services team on same day to deal.

Anyone else hearing this in a slightly Blofeld voice?

SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager- I would have finished work by then.

No I didn't express the urgency

Bingo

My experience of HR in academia there is no urgency to do fuck all.

Bc- Did you stress the urgency?
SJ- I had lots of other complaints including one on the same thing and always deal efficiently blah blah

In the hope it will all go away, one way or another.

BC: presumably you read grievance as soon as you could

SJ: yes

BC: you understood it was urgent cos targeted ongoing harassment. Did you stress the urgency to the working group c this

SJ: didn't talk to working group

BC: whoever you spoke to did you stress the urgency

SJ: I take all complaints as impt

BC: in your advice did you stress the urgency of this grievance

SJ: no. I wouldn't have taken any information from the working group...

BC: this was forwarded to you and no one from working group contacted you to say it was esp urgent. You treated is as a normal grievance.

BC: did anyone tell you it was urgent and to deal asap

SJ: no

Custard?

My experience of academia if I had indicated a five alarm fire, it would have gone into the online system and be dealt with when someone could be arsed.

Every employee believes their grievance is urgent.

SJ- I had to read the complaint, had to research the slurs JP complained about so I understood them.

BC: JP writes again stressing urgency of dealing

BC: did you go to anyone c a particular urgency c this

SJ: my focus was to organise the panel and make sure they had the training

I once worked in a law firm The partner who line managed me with had a theory that you just piled the work up and ignored it and if it did not come up as critical at some point then it had resolved itself somehow.

(Firm went bust.).

It takes a lot of guts to put in a grievance, not something an individual does lightly.

So will we find out who the legel bod was who did the training for RG(?)

BC: why not use an outside expert

SJ: felt it needed to be someone in univ who understand ac freedom and fos

BC: People outside OU also understand that. You took that decision with your line manager

SJ: yes

BC: I thought you said you didn't take decisions

BC: It was working group's decision not to go to outside expert

SJ: yes

SJ- Carol Molloy and Rob Macey my immediate director agreed we should go internal with this investigation .

No one asked SJ c if we go to outside expert or keep in house does it make any difference to the timescale

I think most money is on SW advisory Cat person, way back somewhere in last thread I think.

@LarkLane I agree which is why you don’t typically prioritise one employee’s grievance ahead of another employee’s grievance.