Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 6

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read
URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

BC is just utterly brilliant even when ill. If I ever needed a KC (let's hope not) he'd be top of my list, although I couldn't afford him.

I've only been able to listen with half an ear this morning. The bits that registered were that LW thinks Deb is the best HoD you could possibly have, that LW didn't know anything about the WPUK but knew the video was so BAD she could hardly bear to open it and that she told a junior colleague about the ambush she was setting up on JP in the guise of a prof to prof chat.
Looking forward to this afternoon.

Do we have a expected time for DD to give evidence? The judge has mentioned previously that panel had questions to ask if their evidence.

Is it just me or is the OU coming across really really badly? I've been catching up on TT and it's even worse when you see it written down all together.

Crowd Justice is your friend. As are all the MNers who would contribute.
And they say society is dead.

It’s mind boggling. I am cross examined relatively regularly in my job and one golden rule is to prepare, read the bundle but particularly your own reports or statements ahead of the hearing.

Of course there are other golden rules such as, say, answer the question.

Maybe it’s because I’m used to it that these things seem obvious, but honestly I’d not have thought it was computer science.

Maybe it’s because I’m used to it that these things seem obvious, but honestly I’d not have thought it was computer science

I see what you did there. Brava.

It's analogous to the blather of a Boris Johnson speech, or even worse, answer to a Q.

You listen to it in real time, and your brain fills in the blanks, and what he says seems borderline comprehensible.

But look at the verbatim transcript, and it's sheer impenetrable gobbledegook.

Even Stanley Unwin makes more sense.

But IMHO, looking at Professional Managerial Classes legalese based answers on paper, and it's not just impenetrable, it is the classic put a gaggle of monkeys in front of typewriters and see if you get Shakespeare.

No, what you get is OU staff testimonies.

Too bad the monkeys are running the zoo.

@ConferenceHost absolutely - preparation for giving evidence is so important. Not even re-reading your witness statement before you take the stand is lazy at best and incredibly arrogant at worst.

See also: never get clever with a barrister, they'll wipe the floor with you. I was told that by my tutor as a baby police officer many moons ago!

It might have been a reference to this [proud] :

I wonder if all the quick-to-get through OU witnesses will be like this. A new Olympic sport: explode out of the starting blocks, flying leap through the air, and impale yourself on the railings.

You should be proud @Mmmnotsure it's still making me proper laugh.

A new Olympic sport: explode out of the starting blocks, flying leap through the air, and impale yourself on the railings

Sadly, I think OU staff would wear that as a badge of pride and pass it off as an act of heroism to be the scrambling ladder to permit DD to get to safe ground.

I wonder if all the quick-to-get through OU witnesses will be like this. A new Olympic sport: explode out of the starting blocks, flying leap through the air, and impale yourself on the railings.

I love this - it feels gloriously Pythonesque.

Oh gosh, even though I'm not watching online, just reading the Mumsnet threads, there is something unutterably joyous about watching Ben in action, as he gently takes each witness by the hand and leads them, blindfold, to the trapdoor before he presses the switch and watches them whoosh down the hole.

If you’re in this deep a hole it might be better not to. Then you have a better chance of keeping a straight face when you use “can’t remember” as a way of avoiding awkward questions.

Oh, and that Justin is in a proper grump today.

Wonder if it's a result of the problems last week, when the sound kept dropping off towards the end and people were speculating that the clerks had gone off home. Perhaps someone Had A Word and that wasn't well received.

'oh no' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Oh yes it is 😂

Who is 'she, the cat's mother?' to quote my beloved gran

BC: DD email to LM c JP letter to Sunday Times. It contradicted OU commitment to EDI inc SW advice and not good - contributing to hostile environment for t and nb colleagues

LM: my 'oh no' response was c another area of discontent and unhappiness. Not everyone working tog, not cos of JP.

BC: JP mentioning things others found upsetting was agst happiness in dept

LM: Not JPs fault. Just a whole atmosphere of people feeling hurt. On both sides

Oh no= fuck sake from LW I think

Oh the wonderful Deb Drake 😬

Deb was dealing with it in such a great way. Oh the paragon is so wonderful.

BC: you don't deal with it. Just make a jibe about JP not even using people's correct titles

LM: Not a jibe. A joke.

BC c LM not trying to sort out situation

LM: not my responsibility but DD was dealing with it in such a great way using her expertise...

She's lost the combative demeanour over lunch. Her tone is now 'aw, it's was all so sad, people not getting on'.