Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 6

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

BC: wondering if you have misremembered. Are you getting your years muddled up?

Sign of a true gentleman - pointing out out the emergency exit while quietly removing the safety catch on the trap

IIJM, or is BC being rather more combative and going in harder and earlier than he did in Maya's EAT? I'm just wondering if it's a deliberate policy, or he's just had enough of the BS, or he's just feeling ill and needs to deal as efficiently as possible with each witness, possibly at the expense of a very small amount of performative courtesy?

It's a bravura performance (I'm not watching but following here and on Twitter) but it does feel different to how he handled Maya's witnesses (also I am disappointed by the lack of support animals and support Mums).

I wonder if it is because at least some of the witnesses are based in legal disciplines so maybe he expects them to know the law

He wants to get to DD, I have a feeling she will take up a lot of time @SqueakyDinosaur

These witnesses are just coming across as repellent bullies.

And they seem to have no idea how badly their evidence reflects on their own behaviour

Why are they treating the whole thing as such a joke that they can't even be arsed to read their own witness statement wot they wrote before they give evidence?

And assume that a QC such as BC won't have read it either?

And it should be chief, not paragon.

I think he's just up against the clock and is having to dispense with some of the niceties. He's just getting the answer he needs and moving on.

I think it’s just the clock running down, the first few witnesses waffled the time away.

BC is better at pronoun usage and ensuring he gets it correct than the gender zealots.

LM: and if I say I'm going to do something I'll do it.

Does Justin ever do as he's asked??

Justin's not that great is he? Was it Deborah before? She was a lot better.

TT commentary, back at 2pm

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1714223499298955307.html

I'm still reeling from LM telling LD about the meeting.

Jesus Christ. There is no other way to interpret that than LM's clearly already taken sides and thinks LD must be pandered to in all things.

I suspect the more direct approach is a combination of time pressure, illness, working now from more firmly established principles, and having no need to lull them into a false sense of security because their self-belief has already put them there.

SqueakyDinosaur - massively OT but is the name an homage to Helen Joyce and David Lammy?

Or, am I addressing someone who can neither confirm nor deny being a wearer of squeaky dino costumes at some events?

Yeah. We know that, Louise!

Thanks @ickky you are a truly amazing woman

I do not understand AI but the bias potential is definately scary. Some one on twitter did a break down of AI answers to a GC question, might have been what is a woman, and it showed that the algorithm threw up a biased response because the code told it to give more weight to one area than another. The first answer was basically anyone who says they are because that was the area the coders prioritised.

I wish I'd thought to claim that, but it's the favourite toy of my favourite-ever dog....

I know this comment was 10 pages ago, but I'm just managing to catch up after a busy morning, and this has made me hoot with laughter. I have a mental image of Ben very gently pushing the witness in the direction of the spikes until they fall backwards on top of them.

How many witnesses have denied saying something until BC points out it's in their witness statement? 3? 4?

Look, there might be hard documentary evidence but they IDENTIFY as something else entirely having happened, now it's convenient.

A very clear illustration of where self ID leads IMO.

It's the gift that keeps on giving

tbh, it feels like most of them but I may be generalising from the WS to various emails and other documents that they deny.