Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 4

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

3 women a week are killed...but ✨trans✨.

I noticed there were over 40 in the remote room just now.

I wonder if there were other people who were burned in the fire in the refugee camp. I find it really difficult to believe that this was something motivated by transphobia and not some other issue in a refugee camp.

What a stretch. Disingenuous doesn't cover it.

One of the open letters referenced tw being burnt alive in a refugee camp in Kenya. I think that 's what he's referring to .

Yes. I think it's the Kakuma camp. FiLiA also campaigns about the awful conditions there for lesbians.

https://x.com/filia_charity/status/1712497072371532176?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

TT Commentary

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1712817695714853040.html

I think we have been kicked, so all log back in.

I know we don't matter to these people - it's just infuriating to have some patronising git making his disdain for women so clear

He's a rabid TRA.

Ok, so we all have sympathy for anyone who was burned in the fire in Kenya. Is it PK's contention that those involved in the Savage Minds podcast specifically cited this and then laughed about it?

It's interesting that both he and Downes started off all mealy mouthed by saying that they respected the freedom of speech of Jo and other gender critical academics, and their rights to express their beliefs. When clearly they don't.

I'm so glad I don't work in this shit anymore. This is Academia UK in 2023?

Thank goodness I tied the unilever arch files together and made my escape out of the office window to old age, disability, and retirement.

A much better place to be, than in these toxic workplaces of so called learning.

Is it PK's contention that those involved in the Savage Minds podcast specifically cited this and then laughed about it?

It it were to be, he'd be lying.

Yes, just escaped myself. 🍾

Shades of the NHS national adviser who reassured 'their communities' that although GC had to be allowed make submissions their evidence would be disregarded?

Found him:

The NHS review into single-sex wards is being carried out by a "trans advocate" who has said that rules that allow patients to self-identify their gender will not be changed, The Telegraph can reveal.

Dr Michael Brady, the national adviser for LGBT health at NHS England, has written to campaign groups telling them that there is “no plan to reduce existing rights of trans people”. Controversial charities Stonewall and Mermaids had contributed “very helpfully” to the process, Dr Brady told the Trans NHS Staff Network in emails seen by The Telegraph.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/15/fears-flawed-nhs-single-sex-wards-review-carried-trans-advocate/

Also: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10618541/Womens-groups-claim-EXCLUDED-flawed-NHS-review-single-sex-hospital-wards.html

MN thread: We might also recall that the NHS denied that he was chairing the review, a claim that he made.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4506395-Fears-over-flawed-NHS-single-sex-wards-review-carried-out-by-trans-advocate

Quick de-lurk to add my thanks for all the work that's going into this thread. Have gardened too.
I so wish that these proceedings could be witnessed in the mainstream!

I can't get past this lot being the best witnesses that the OU thought would win the case for them. Had the legal team ever met them? Spoken to them? Asked them a question?

I'm sorry but he thinks that setting up a network where people talk about the reality of sexed bodies, leads to trans people being burnt in their beds on a different continent?

And he is saying this in a courtroom? Where he knows his words are being recorded and blast out over the world wide interwebs?

Outrageous reference to the incident in Kenya - there has been no context about this incident. PK seems to implying that the podcast referenced this. Perhaps he doesn't realise that the judge has listened to the podcast?

Every time someone says they don't believe in fairies, somewhere another fairy falls down dead.

I think his contention is that trans people were being killed and the savage minds podcast was using transphobic tropes and this contributed to a world in which trans people are unsafe. Not that the podcast directly referred to the Kenya deaths.

I think it's telling that is someone wants to talk about atrocities against women they'd have endless examples from the UK alone but PK seems only able to find a Kenyan example of trans people being killed

I got the impression that PK was outraged that people were laughing while serious stuff was going on elsewhere. Kind of - you can't watch Googlebox tonight and laugh because of what is happening in Israel & Gaza.

Sorry if this has been covered - has PK been asked specifically what GCRN could be named in order to be acceptable (as he objects to the name in his statement as GC and calls it a deliberate provocation to trans communities)

It seems the person killed was FTM, so not relevant to the question of female sex based rights/spaces. They are various described as a "gay man" and a "trans man". It seems to be homophobia more than transphobic.

He is I note not taking much responsibility for how he talks about women is contributing to the three deaths a week in his own country.

Sorry to link PN but for the "trans man" info

www.thepinknews.com/2021/04/16/kenya-kakuma-refugee-camp-bomb-attack-chriton-atuhwera-trinidad-jerry/

Other agencies say "gay man"

Oo, "I stand by the allegations of bad faith" - do tell...