Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 4

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

You beat me to it. Is he admitting to unlawful discrimination here? I'd like to see all the paperwork around drawing those jobs up.

PK: Not happy that notion/term tw had made it through comms machine and made it into the public arena.

BC: you want univ to dictate to philosphers like JPk what lang he can use.

PK: I'm a social scientist and philosphy as undergrad. I am told what I can do. I am puzzled why humanities people don't have a similar vetting for scholarship. This is one of my bugbears.

I do not accept cis gendered to describe me and find it offensive and exclusionary of biological women (and men who are in touch with reality). Does this guy care? No.

Please Ben say that some people object to the term cis and think it's a slur

It's a common strategy of this politics. Like the never ending 'think of the LGBT+ people! don't you love the LGBT+ people?' whenever you question anything - tucking under the rug the 'but only THESE LGBT+ people who are useful to our political agenda: don't talk to the ones we threw out of their own movement and threaten to rape and kill a lot for not being useful'.

Human shielding. And using people. Always using people.

It's weird that the OU must have chosen which witnesses they put forward for their defence. I wonder what possessed them to use PK (or LD come to that)? they'd have been better off making no defence at all (well unless the judge is captured I suppose).

PK - waffles for 10 minutes

Judge - big sigh Am I to take it from that that your answer to the question is yes?

PK goes on. And on

J am I to take it from that that your answer is yes?

PK: I don't want to dictate. That would be anathema to the principles of the univ

😂

Which case was it that had John Nicholson MP as a witness? He thought he had done brilliantly and even boasted so, completely oblivious to what most of the world saw.

Prof doesn't get that when you regulate language in line with men's desires, you do impact women's ability to advocate for their rights. What is his area of research because he doesn't seem very good at thinking about the bigger picture.

As a woman I find the term trans women demeaning and disrespectful.

Perhaps GC academics should just say "males", and not pander by using "transwomen" - it's clearly not appreciated as a concession.

PK constantly schooling BC. J tells PK that their ref to a statement is just the shorthand that they are using.

PK is insufferable.

Which case was it that had John Nicholson MP as a witness? He thought he had done brilliantly and even boasted so, completely oblivious to what most of the world saw.

Mermaids v LGBA

Then we would be back to men in dresses.

Yes me too. It excludes me from the category of woman.

Gosh he's an angry man.

You're assuming she deactivated rather than getting banned 😉

Me three (finding "trans woman" offensive). Nothing about us without us - if you think you're writing about women, better talk to women! But they don't care about our kind of women...

Elon Musk to the witness stand please.

Just to reassure people for future tribunals I apply for access using an email that has my name and I sign in with my name and I've never been asked to clarify my identity by the clerk. I've also never had any trouble as a result of using my name - I think the clerks are good at keeping emails secure

PK: we weren't happy with univ response. They didn't understand the issues they were dealing with here.

Remind me again - he is a witness FOR the OU?

Loving the name @WFTWFTCHTJ

"Professor Keogh, the most helpful thing is for you to answer my questions" < claps >

This witness, like LD, really hasn't grasped he is in a court of law and not a debating room.