Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 4

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Judge intervenes WTF are you talking about? (again, I paraphrase)

PK: I think that's a really good q, thank you judge😆

😬😬 I mean the OU does know who will be making the judgement, right?

Good question Judge, he is wriggling on the hook.

He might be able to bluff his way through his own nonsense, but that approach doesn't really work in the Courtroom.

Good question from Judge - how does the uni cope with new areas of research.

@BenCoopersSupportWren Please get "epistemological" into the song somewhere please.

PK - that's a really good question, thank you judge.

These academic witnesses treat everyone like a slightly dim student.

His problem is with not GCRN but how it was set up.

PK in his witness statement says he doesn't agree with GC beliefs because he believes gender exists as a social phenomenon and is therefore real.

Well I'm GC and I also believe that. So he doesn't understand GC beliefs?

PKs position is that neither gender nor sex trumps the other.

Which Judges just love, of course!

And this is the issue with Forstater's judgement, important as it is.

GC 'beliefs' are based on the scientific fact of binary sex and sex differences in ALL mammals, particularly humans, many hundreds of years of scientific evidence and millions of years of evolution.

GI 'beliefs' are based on mens wants, a tiny number of people (who after seeing LD probably are backing away from the TRAs at speed) with body dysphoria, and people like LD who want an ideology that allows them to stamp their foot and scream and get what they want, and never be accountable for their actions.

Hardly the same.

This witness is going to come a cropper with Ben. Ben doesn't put up with flannel, which obviously this guy gets by on.

Ben - let me help you 😂

I’ve donated to Jo again because this is the best entertainment I’ve had all year 😀

PK - it's a difficult one isn't it?

BC - it really isn't is it? It's obvious.

😂😂😂

BC: Let me help you.

Can you grasp this?

Who's that guy at GCC who lost his temper during evidence at Allison's hearing? I'm getting the same vibe.

😂

Before this all finishes, I fear we may need:

• epistemological
• phenomenonological
• zemiological.

Oh this guy really loves himself and yet is totally incoherent. I'm almost ready to fully endorse the view (which some people do have) of binning the humanities in universities wholesale and putting the research money into cancer, vaccines or something of use to humanity at this point.

If they want to waffle on like this can they please do it on their own time and using their own money.

The whole 'if you were as clever as me you'd understand it, but you're not, so just do what I say' has worked for a while with the academic muppets.

I'd argue about genuine cleverness if it comes with an inability to communicate in plain English or explain ideas to laymen.

I can't remember, there were a few. None of them did well on the other side of the court.

Was it David Renton?

Just attaching this gem from twitter.

twitter.com/mar2vickers/status/1712566044051861686?t=CZomIE6xuYUW5KwbtoTeZQ&s=19