Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 4

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

😂 Ben just continued his sentence over PK's twaddle.

I am hoping for at least one of them - possibly the "normal" one - to come in with (say) an emotional support wombat/ goldfish/ lemming or whatever, plus their Auntie Margery (with her knitting).

Donated again.

I am disappointed to have missed listening in this morning as it appears LD was a gift that kept on giving.

PK could be similar.

I want BC to ask what is degrading/hostile.

Donated

A general question about the order of witnesses.

Who decides the order and if the defending side have input would you normally put your strongest first/last.

I realise with 18 witnesses it might just be down to availability.

PK trying to school BC. Let's see how that goes.

Me too. They all say it reflexively.

It's already loaded in the chamber.

PK: ...Do you understand what I am saying?

BC (laughs): Pure nonsense, PK

He's just going to waffle isn't he. PK is the stereotypical academic to be, lots of words saying absolutely nothing.

"complete nonsense Professor Keogh"
indeed, he just said the university required his work to be peer reviewed which is simply not true...

😂 Get off the fence, Ben. Tell us what you think!

😂another one trying to say I didn’t mean that/that’s not what I meant.

(Academic books, for example, are not peer reviewed; nor are preprints people put up on archive servers; and standards of peer review are highly variable and the OU, like other universities, does not restrict where its academics can submit their work.)

How many times is he going to use a Catholic analogy?

PK is spicy

What an arrogant twat this bloke is. He’s not answering BC’s questions at all.

PK: if you had let me finished….

🙄

BC's voice is so much better this afternoon. He's going to need it with this witness.

Ooo - arrogant academic.

PK is pissed off he is not winning the argument.

J stepping in

His research area mentions a lot about sexual and reproductive health, so surely he understands biological sex and the importance of it.

So why the claim that he doesn't agree with GC?

Claimant witnesses always go first, then the respondants witnesses.

Lots of it comes down to when people are available, but I'm sure there will be some strategy in putting up witnesses in a certain order. The barrister representing tells the other barrister the order (but there probably is collaboration going on in the background).

J - I and my panel members are struggling to understand your answers...

BC: You have left me behind with your logic.

PK: The right to hold views doesn't mean univ needs to give them academic credibility. It should give me an infrastructure around my research only.

PK: I was brought up a catholic - second time he's said that.

Ben is being steely and sighy.

PK: So if you had let me finish... I do research that people value.

We didn't have epistemological on the bingo card but we should have. PK explains what it means to the judge.