Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 4

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

LD: Calling it GC group could be seen as provocative cos OU could be seen as taking sides

BC: But you understand ac freedom. A group researching a topic doesn't make any comment as to what side a univ is taking?

LD: no cos...

J: Pls answer the q

LD: I don't know

Judge intervenes, answer the question, is GC network name acceptable or not.

LD I don't know.

moving on.

Amnesia issue now. Doesn't remember who were how when letter created received etc....

The amnesia is back

This witness is not very credible, is they?

I mean, we're pretty much left with "feeling aggrieved and upset that this person is proof I haven't yet been able to force the entire world to bend the knee to my religion", aren't we?

Yes. Absolutely nails it. This really is the bottom line of this case, the Alison Bailey case, the Maya Forstater case, WILL be the bottom line of Sarah's case......

That's mostly what this ridiculous person is wittering about but without quite the guts to be honest about it.

Oooh!
BC: you have a better recollection than you’re letting on

big huff from LD

BC you have better recollection than you are letting on, don't you?

Bugger, have to nip out now.

BC - You have a better recollection than you're letting on, don't you?

LD - No.

LD- don't remember who sent the link, how I got it, who was in the group
BC - you have a better recollection than you're letting on, don't you

Ohhh I’m looking forward to reading the tribunal tweets from this morning

<rubs hands >

This witness is so poor I recon her next strategy will be to turn on the tears and complain to the judge that BC is being mean

BC "last chance, otherwise I'll [tell the judge you lied] later"

Yes, their voice has a slight crack in it now.

BC When did you delete the WhatsApps ?
LD I don't think I deleted anything from 2021. I changed my phone.

I smell burning...maybe because someone's pants are on fire! 🔥

At the book launch in Edinburgh this week the speakers were all great and listening to Selena Todd and Shereen Benjamin you could tell sitting in their class would be interesting and you'd be challenged to think and you'd grow as a learner. I'm not getting the feeling that would be the same in LD's class

Leaning forward all ears here, me.

"this witness's claimed lack of recollection is not one you should rely on" - lovely!

BC: Someone you can't remember asked you to set up the letter. You don't remember who you were offering support to. Tell us some of them.

LD: I don't know. I don't remember. It was collectively written by a no of indivs.

BC; With whom you were in contact?

LD: I don't remember.

BC: you have a better recollection than you are letting on, don't you?

BC: Can't remember. Can't remember. DDrake wasn't part of the group.

BC: Last chance to tell us a better recollection or I'll make submissions re your answer in due course.

BC: Do you still have the whatsapps

LD: no

BC: When did you delete them

LD: I don't think I deleted anything. I don't have any whatsapps from 2021

[wait for it]

cos I changed my phone

BC: I will make submissions that this witness' claimed non recollection is not something that should be relied on.

Someone should really research the link between amnesia and belief in GI. It’s an exciting new area of research with an unexpectedly large body of evidence from these court cases.

LD: I was more interested in being a t-inclusive employer

BC: asks question about reading something
LD: something about annual leave (bingo)
BC: All I'd asked so far is whether you'd read it, I'm assuming the answer to that is 'yes'.
LD: yes.

😂😂

The Judge has well and truly peaked. She's so fed up.