Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

DD: The belief that sex is immutable, static in some way, - binary, fixed - has implications to transpeople's access to services, public spaces needed for their safety and protection

Still not actually answering the question, a simple yes would suffice.

Oh we have a gender affirming believer here. <gets popcorn out>

Ben's first question - you believe that gender critical views are harmful to trans people? Answer - waffle, but implication yes

They know Forstater- they can be manifested in a way that causes harm

BC You don't think GC beliefs should be expressed in academia and public.

lol poor DD is so annoyed biological reality is a thing

Ben - fuck the waffle - focus on my question

Cup was a paper cup abandoned on the floor. It has now gone - I miss it, I think it had more coherence than the witnesses today

lol poor DD is so annoyed biological reality is a thing

Witness has a very soft voice and Judge has already had to ask for the answer to be repeated a couple of times.

DD has clearly had to come up with a word salad to try and tone down her views.

Was it a branded cup?

Oh this is too gripping, and I have dogs to walk, floors to sweep, bathrooms to clean.

Thanks all for your reportage.

'That was not my question' on to the bingo card please. We have a line already.

Oh dear Dr Downes saying they think that it's ok to be gender critical but now BC is taking them through exactly what they said and did. I expect this will be fascinating

@Sisterpita This is Leigh Downes not Deb Drake

Me too. The utter privilege (to use their terms) of these wanky women who go on and on about trans wants (they call them rights) whilst stamping ALL OVER the rights of and exclude XX women. Like us, doing the childcare and having to go into women's toilets with our little kids with the likes of Eddie Izzard in that pink coat and stockings touching his dick in that photo a woman took of him at a train station.

I'm so fucking angry at fucking Downes. Downes is not doing the school run I note.

I hope the full force of biology hits her at some point, as it statistically probably will.

Not apparently a branded cup @chilling19 but I hesitate to assume its identity

Yet they refuse to accept the reverse has implications for women. IMO arguably more severe.

@MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving thanks

LD - I was only a tiny voice!!!

So now DD insisting they had nothing to do with cancelling the conference or encouraging people to sign the letter. This is not going to go well for them

Oh, nicely done 😂

Is this the same person who wrote 'Teaching Emotionally Challenging Topics: An educator’s guide to supporting emotional resilience skills in higher education'