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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender critics akin to white supremacists, claims SNP’s Mhairi Black

162 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/08/2023 01:54

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/lpwH9/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/07/snp-mp-mhairi-black-accused-of-hypocrisy/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mhairi Black said that “bad actors” and “50-year-old Karens” were responsible for the <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/lpwH9/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/10/scotland-young-children-trans-puberty-blockers-health/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">debate over transgender rights and suggested those who vocally <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/lpwH9/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/13/joanna-cherry-scottish-mp-comedy-club-apology-gender-trans/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">disagreed with her views on such issues could not be “decent” people.

“There are definitely <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/lpwH9/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/31/gender-critical-books-hidden-librarians-calderdale/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">bad actors at play who are radicalising people who are vulnerable. They are radicalising people who are too online.

“And they’re also using this small community as a wedge issue to cause chaos and make people divide amongst themselves.

“When you start tracing it back, the money always links back to fundamental Christian groups in America, Baptist groups, anti-abortion organisations.”

And lots more at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/08/mhairi-black-snp-fringe-gender-critical-white-supremacist/ which can be read on https://archive.ph

Interesting that other news reports dont include her making these remarks:

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/definite-bad-actors-debate-trans-143603944.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/mhairi-black-westminster-snp-holyrood-christian-b2389561.html

Gender critics akin to white supremacists, claims SNP’s Mhairi Black

The Scottish nationalists’ deputy Westminster leader accuses ‘bad actors’ of hijacking debate over transgender rights

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/08/mhairi-black-snp-fringe-gender-critical-white-supremacist

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 09/08/2023 02:01

Gender-critical campaigners akin to white supremacists, claims SNP’s Mhairi Black (archive.ph) try this if the arc hive link in the OP doesn't work.

IwantToRetire · 09/08/2023 02:11

try this if the arc hive link in the OP doesn't work.

That is the archive link! I thought the mumsnet rule was you should post the actual archive link, but can signpost readers to it!!!!

OP posts:
AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 09/08/2023 02:38

Oh! In which case I apologise to HQ. Oops.

SinnerBoy · 09/08/2023 03:02

Goodness me, but she's as daft as a brush. She's simply repeating TRA mantras, without any investigation into the truth of them.

Coyoacan · 09/08/2023 03:36

Oddly enough, the algorithms of YouTube keep on bringing up gender critical black Republican voters for me. They sound quite moderate (though I don't what they think about economics or migrants), but they are definitely not white supremacists.

Goodviibrations · 09/08/2023 03:46

There are definitely bad actors at play who are radicalising people who are vulnerable. They are radicalising people who are too online.

... Is she talking about TRAs here? Because if not, this is one hell of a projection!

NitroNine · 09/08/2023 05:33

those who made “intellectual” arguments against extending trans rights were akin to past generations who claimed non-white ethnic groups were inferior
Whereas the pseudo-intellectual arguments for trampling all over women’s rights of course bear no relation to the literal millennia of men declaring, documenting, “diagnosing” & even dissecting women’s supposed inferiorities. You’d hope politician could do better than regurgitating Twitter talking points from the US - I note she did manage to omit reference to segregated bathrooms, which puts her ahead of an alarming number of people 🤔

As for racist, nice to see a white British politician making so free with “Karen”; a word (like woke) that’s been ripped from the black community & had its meaning mangled by white people into simply being a misogynistic + ageist slur. The Karen-ing in the context Mhairi describes is done by TW who use their social capital to [try to] get their way (even if it harms others) without censure - your one who kicked off on Twitter about getting given the key to the unisex changing room is an example of it.

“When you start tracing it back, the money always links back to fundamental Christian groups in America, Baptist groups, anti-abortion organisations.”
This whole “dark money” business - I’m sorry what’s allegedly being funded with this filthy lucre? I mean, it’s quite patently a lie - if nothing else (& I know there are lots of other women with receipts) Beira’s Place is funded by JK Rowling. Of course, perhaps (past) unfavourable coverage of her expenses claims has her trying to get everyone to look at others’ piggybanks & pocketmoney [plans].

Christian fundamentalists are not my cup of tea. However, I am not an MP, so do not have to represent any in Parliament. Paisley’s plethora of churches includes more than one evangelical church; a Baptist church; & a Mormon temple - so Mhairi will have constituents who hold views [almost] identical to those of the groups she is casually villainising above. I know she’s not standing again at the next election, but…

“To me, a decent person is someone who tries to make others comfortable and accept them, particularly when it’s a marginalised, oppressed group.
That’s just human progress. And to me being decent is being part of that progress, not hindering it.”
I would genuinely love to know why Mhairi Black doesn’t consider any of the many groups of women who need single sex spaces & services deserving of acceptance & feeling comfortable. And indeed how & why she doesn’t consider any of the following examples to be marginalised & oppressed: Orthodox Jewish women & girls; Muslim & Hindu women & girls & girls who practice purdah; nuns; GRT women & girls (perhaps she just hasn’t had time to read the 2019 WEC Report yet 🤷‍♀️); [disabled] women who want female-only [intimate] care [as CSA/DV/FGM/rape/SA survivors]; & the refugee & asylum seeker women & girls who fall across those categories & have massive amounts of additional trauma to process.
When a TW joins a women-only swimming session or gym session it becomes mixed-sex. For many of the groups of women & girls above, that means they’re no longer able to participate. The loss of the Hampstead Heath Women’s Pond in this way is a particularly cruel example. Somehow, though, this grown woman who particpates in running the country believes it is “progress” to force other women from the public sphere; & to prioritise the wishes of males over the needs of females. To me that sounds horrifically regressive - & certainly not decent - but what would I know? I’m not an MP, just a woman who needs single-sex spaces & services, living in an area where that’s true of lots of the population.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12333323/amp/Furious-trans-woman-blasts-hotel-spa-staff-asked-wanted-use-unisex-changing-rooms-says-experience-spoilt-day.html?ico=amp_articleInlineText

Backstreets · 09/08/2023 05:53

I remember when she was the great young hope. What an utter clown she turned out to be, and not just because of her adolescent TRA antics.

I admit I always find it extra weird when comfortably GNC women can’t look through this shit but I suppose the younger variety has a big chance of having gender specials in their social circle.

AutumnCrow · 09/08/2023 05:53

I thought she was supposed to be smart? This is just drivel for dummies.

She’s quite middle class really isn’t she?

Igneococcus · 09/08/2023 05:58

I dread to think what job her mates in the Scottish government will find for her when she leaves Westminster.

Waitwhat23 · 09/08/2023 06:13

I saw this on Twitter and thought Victoria Smith really hit the nail on the head -

'Funny how someone who was such a vocal supporter of the WASPI campaign is comfortable sneering at "50-year-old Karens" when she feels they've spoken out of turn. Older women are good enough to boost Black's profile, but god forbid they should do politics, too.'

LoobiJee · 09/08/2023 06:33

Deploying the “marginalised, oppressed groups” mantra again, I see. To paraphrase the baroness “Has she met the Yazidis?”.

How is she defining oppression?

Stating that women and girls should be afforded the basic dignity of single-sex female-only spaces is not oppression of males seeking access to women and girls in a state of undress.

But perhaps it’s too much to expect a legislator to have the capacity to define the terms they are so attached to and use so routinely.

LoobiJee · 09/08/2023 06:42

“Ms Black was asked whether she believed that someone with a different philosophical view to her on gender issues could still be “a thoroughly decent person”. She responded: “If you keep it to yourself, aye,” to applause from the audience.”

So, in other words, it’s something that should not be said.

ResisterRex · 09/08/2023 06:50

This Mhairi Black?

twitter.com/scotnatwatch/status/1658707159624949761?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Shocked I tell you, shocked.

Dragonwindow · 09/08/2023 06:59

What about the fundamentalist Christian family who spent years trying to beat the gay out of their poor little boy, before deciding it would be palatable to transition him?

I understand that trans people come from all walls of life, and come with different goals and motivations. I understand that teenaged girls presenting with ROGD have no connection to AGP. The same can be said for people with GC views. Obviously.

Ps the deeply homophobic contingent who sometimes describe themselves as "GC" are of course not in any way critical of gender - they revere stereotypical gender roles.

AutumnCrow · 09/08/2023 07:07

ResisterRex · 09/08/2023 06:50

'Melted Kit Kat' - has she actually given that as an excuse previously?!

Helleofabore · 09/08/2023 07:07

I must admit that I too have always thought that very young politicians elected to councils or in parliament lack life experience needed to influence policy and law making. I honestly don’t understand how voters make the decision to vote in a 20 year old as Black was initially.

I expect that Black will move to a senior role in one of the groups such as gendered intelligence or stonewall. Whatever Black thought they were doing on stage saying that I don’t know, but they have shat on their constituents from their lofty position. I agree with Women for Scotland, they are not fit for office. I guess Sturgeon is rather busy at the moment to tell Black what is expected from SNP politicians 😉….
And I doubt Yousaf has the ability to.

Coveescapee · 09/08/2023 07:19

Dragonwindow · 09/08/2023 06:59

What about the fundamentalist Christian family who spent years trying to beat the gay out of their poor little boy, before deciding it would be palatable to transition him?

I understand that trans people come from all walls of life, and come with different goals and motivations. I understand that teenaged girls presenting with ROGD have no connection to AGP. The same can be said for people with GC views. Obviously.

Ps the deeply homophobic contingent who sometimes describe themselves as "GC" are of course not in any way critical of gender - they revere stereotypical gender roles.

Is this a real case or have you just made it up?

Dragonwindow · 09/08/2023 07:28

It's a real case, they made a whole documentary about it. Someone else on here will know the family's name.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 09/08/2023 07:29

Good to see she’s still thick as mince with not an ounce of self awareness.

id love to see her debate with Maya or Helen Joyce but she’s another one who’ll only preach to those who agree with her

TheGreatATuin · 09/08/2023 07:29

Coveescapee · 09/08/2023 07:19

Is this a real case or have you just made it up?

It's real unfortunately. There's a child 'activist' in the US who has been used as the face of this stuff who I'm assuming Dragonwindow is referring to. The mother is on record in a radio interview talking about making him pray 'for hours' on his knees and giving him a lot of hard spankings from the age of around two because he liked girly stuff like sparkles and dolls, and they were worried he was gay.
It's then acknowledged that they made a mistake but that's because he was actually a girl, not that all the beatings were bad if he'd simply be a gender non conforming boy.
Leaving the name out as I'm not sure if MN would leave it up, but quite well known as the parents put the child out there a lot.

Clymene · 09/08/2023 07:30

IwantToRetire · 09/08/2023 02:11

try this if the arc hive link in the OP doesn't work.

That is the archive link! I thought the mumsnet rule was you should post the actual archive link, but can signpost readers to it!!!!

They never used to work so great if they now do Smile

She's a thoroughly unpleasant young woman, unfit for office.

TheGreatATuin · 09/08/2023 07:31

When you start tracing it back, the money always links back to fundamental Christian groups in America, Baptist groups, anti-abortion organisations.
This is pure conspiracy theory. If Mhairi is that gullible, she's not fit to be an MP.

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