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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 6

997 replies

Kucinghitam · 31/07/2023 04:25

Continuation of Thread 5.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 5 | Mumsnet

Continuation of [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4759300-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-4? Thread 4]]. There is so much excel...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4807817-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-5?

OP posts:
Dramatico · 02/08/2023 11:32

weaseleyes · 31/07/2023 22:17

I thought the age uk guide was reasonably pragmatic, given that there will be people in this situation, but it brought home how huge the challenges of caring for/being cared for - an ageing body after gender reassignment surgery must be. Ageing inflicts enough trials on us without this extra layer of difficulty. I wish no one felt they had to put themselves through it.

A colleague of mine, who does a lot of LGBT+ research, said an emerging issue for older trans people can be that if they develop dementia they start to forget their trans identity and revert to their previous sex. This can be very distressing for their families. I thought this was very poignant, though probably for different reasons than my colleague.

Also, there is some emerging evidence that overdosing on extraneous oestrogen for an extended period of time can lead to early onset dementia for men. And vice versa for women who take extraneous testosterone.

It's early stage evidence and large scale studies need to be properly conducted and peer reviewed. But it is obviously very concerning.

weaseleyes · 02/08/2023 12:03

That's interesting - and horrifying - @Dramatico. This really is the gift that keeps on giving.

duc748 · 02/08/2023 13:06

I've just had a 'duh!' moment! During our chat last night, my mate mentioned something he'd heard about "gay conversion bans", or some such. And I said, in this country? That sounds more like the sort of thing you hear about in the Bible Belt in the US. No, he said, in Scotland. And I said, that's odd, doesn't seem like the kind of thing people would go for in the UK, Especially in Scotland, in fact. Well I hadn't followed the story, and didn't realise what he was talking about. I guess you're all ahead of me by now... 😀So naturally, to find out the facts, I went straight to the experts, and checked with Stonewall..
😀

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/our-work/campaigns/ban-conversion-therapy

And then read this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4862889-spath-scottish-government-treatment-protocol-for-trans-care-counter-to-cass

and from that, this:

https://forwomen.scot/16/11/2022/spath/

"Conversion therapy" seems an ugly term, doesn't it? The sort of thing ant decent person would oppose. The sheer dishonesty of these fuckers. They just seem to be blithely carrying on in Scotland. And everywhere they get the chance, I suppose.

Ban Conversion Therapy

It’s been five years since the UK Government first promised to ban so-called ‘conversion therapy’. Yet today, more than 1.5 million LGBTQ+ people in England and Wales remain at risk of these harmful attempts to ‘cure’ us.  Find out more about the real...

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/our-work/campaigns/ban-conversion-therapy

MmePoppySeedDefage · 02/08/2023 13:15

What did poor Scotland do to deserve this!

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 13:18

MmePoppySeedDefage · 02/08/2023 13:15

What did poor Scotland do to deserve this!

Inadvertently voted in a party that ended up with a narcissistic psychopath for a leader seems to have been their only crime.

MavisMcMinty · 02/08/2023 13:40

Because of the LGB bit of the T. Most people (in my experience) aren’t homophobic, gay rights have been widely accepted, so people just widened their tolerance of gayness into tolerance of transness because they must be the same thing. Because of the T in the LGB. And because Stonewall were the good guys back in the day, so they must be on TRSOH on this too.

StephanieSuperpowers · 02/08/2023 14:10

But also, I think most people have the impulse to just let everyone else get on with their lives. So the T group just say "just let us get on with our lives" and people don't have an issue with that. But they don't see the secret lobbying going on and since it is never reported, they don't really know. Unless you're quite engaged with this topic, you don't get an overview of just how profound the changes the T activists want are.

Kucinghitam · 02/08/2023 14:11

That SPATH thread highlights so many of the galloping goalposts of TRSOH.

OP posts:
MavisMcMinty · 02/08/2023 14:24

Got a link, Kuc?

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 14:29

Going to admit I'm here purely to brag.

That's my sketch!

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 6
StephanieSuperpowers · 02/08/2023 14:32

Love it!

duc748 · 02/08/2023 14:33

MavisMcMinty · 02/08/2023 13:40

Because of the LGB bit of the T. Most people (in my experience) aren’t homophobic, gay rights have been widely accepted, so people just widened their tolerance of gayness into tolerance of transness because they must be the same thing. Because of the T in the LGB. And because Stonewall were the good guys back in the day, so they must be on TRSOH on this too.

Absolutely this. So that at a cursory glance, it's made out to be "70s Gay Liberation, Phase 2". Which most folk are happy to go along with. But of course, it isn't.

Waitwhat23 · 02/08/2023 14:36

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 14:29

Going to admit I'm here purely to brag.

That's my sketch!

Ooooh! You must be a very proud Beetle!

Kucinghitam · 02/08/2023 14:37

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 14:29

Going to admit I'm here purely to brag.

That's my sketch!

Fantastic!

OP posts:
MavisMcMinty · 02/08/2023 14:39

That’s great, @Boiledbeetle ! I like his #PoliticallyNonbinary. Tired of being lumped in with the right-wingers on this issue, it is not the USA where you have to adopt the whole package of Democrat or Republican views. But it has been a useful weapon for UK activists nonetheless.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 02/08/2023 14:54

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 14:29

Going to admit I'm here purely to brag.

That's my sketch!

Wow, that's some serious kudos!

IcakethereforeIam · 02/08/2023 15:35

Ooh <impressed>

IcakethereforeIam · 02/08/2023 16:00

IcakethereforeIam · 02/08/2023 15:35

Ooh <impressed>

That may mean I now think you're my mum! 😁

MouseMinge · 02/08/2023 16:44

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 14:29

Going to admit I'm here purely to brag.

That's my sketch!

I saw that earlier on Twitter - Elon Musk can fuck right off with his X - and my first thought was "Ooh, I like that!" Bragging is required here!

MouseMinge · 02/08/2023 16:48

MavisMcMinty · 02/08/2023 13:40

Because of the LGB bit of the T. Most people (in my experience) aren’t homophobic, gay rights have been widely accepted, so people just widened their tolerance of gayness into tolerance of transness because they must be the same thing. Because of the T in the LGB. And because Stonewall were the good guys back in the day, so they must be on TRSOH on this too.

Exactly this when in fact it's a stealth version of gay conversion therapy with the offer of added surgical mutilation. Or, when it's not that, it's a way for narcissistic men to play out their ag fantasies and deliberately make women at the very least uncomfortable.

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 17:05

😁😏 I'm still trying to work out where he saw it. All I've got to work on is he saw it on JL's commentary this morning. (Can I think of anyone with the initial JL? Nope not one!)

I have no idea. Not helped by my brain not working today!

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 02/08/2023 17:12

Beetle, I think the initials are GL, aka Glinner, not JL.

Boiledbeetle · 02/08/2023 17:17

Thank you @Vegemiteandhoneyontoast no wonder i was struggling!

https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1686712855238701057?s=19

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 6
duc748 · 02/08/2023 17:23

Top work, Beetle!

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