Transitioning man in the womens open changing room and communal showers at local swimming pool

[mummymeister]

I have been following the debates on trans men in women only spaces with interest. But, because I live in a very rural area in the back of beyond, I mistakenly thought it wouldnt be something that I had to deal with. However, today at our local pool, at the early morning lane swimming session, a person who was obviously a man in a costume with stubble and hairy chest came into the womens changing room which is open with no cubicle options and into the open shower, again no cubicle options. Almost 100% of the women at the early morning swim shower with no costume on, including me. We did politely suggest that he should use either the family room that has a shower or the limited mobility room that also has a shower. both would be empty early morning as no children allowed etc. Other than asking the company that owns the pool (ex Local authority swimming pool) what else can I do if this happens again. He was adamant he had every right to do this and several women just wrapped themselves in towels and left. any suggestions? I am struggling to see how the feelings and rights of one person trump those of the 8/10 of us using the facility this morning.

It's been decades since I have been to a swimming pool with sex segregated changing rooms. I hate being expected to shower with strange men at close quarters. Most have open top and bottom changing cubicles too. But once refurbished the expectation of sex segregation is removed. For the benefit of the management, not the women users.

When my teenage DS first went to local authority gym he was unnerved that a naked old man with an errection was wandering about, seemingly before and after DSs gym session. I supported him to complain. But was told that the rights of old men to wander around in a state of arousal trumps those of teenage boys to feel safe. No, old men couldn't possibly be expected to put a towel on after they've been fondling themselves in the shower. DS goes to different gym now.

I'm sorry OP is dealing with this creep in her changing room. What do the other female swimmers think? Do you have a local Facebook group where you could solicit opinions and support? Some groups let you post anon. Or Nextdoor?

I'm concerned there was no one at the desk to alert if anything (anything!) bad were to happen. Is there a bell or something in case of an assault, an accident or other medical emergency?

I could have gone into the pool area and spoken to the lifeguard who was on duty there but as I said in my update i was very pressed for time. This is a very small local facility in a very rural area. there is only a small staff and i am sure that there must be a bell but dont ever remember seeing one. i will raise this when they call which hopefully will be today.

Final update the company have declined to phone me or talk to me on the phone. they have sent an email saying that the "information that they have received is that this customer has had full gender reassignment surgery and she is therefore fully entitled to use the female changing room" so that is it I guess the rest of us have to just get on with it and unless and until we can prove that they havent had this (how, short of taking pictures, I have no idea) the centre isnt going to do anything about this. My other nearest pool is 35 - 40 minutes drive away and doesnt offer the same early morning sessions. so i guess if i am not comfortable with this response then thats it.

No surprise they’re hiding behind email!! And isn’t It transphobic to ask if people have had surgery? I hope they haven’t done that

Anyway it’s irrelevant whether they have ir have not had surgery or whether they do or do not have a GRC

single sex changing rooms are a proportionate action to reach a legitimate aim even if a TW has a GRC (most don’t) Their policy doesn’t take into account the fact that women of certain faiths cannot share changing rooms with men and are therefore excluded.

basically OP they’re working on the basis that the random TW in the changing room will kick up way more fuss than you, take to social media, encourage a deluge of complaints & that you wont do that. Easier to upset you than him :/

the eyeballsinthesky - very good point about women of certain faiths. bet they hadnt thought of that either. and yes, you are right. better to upset me and not him. i bet they have asked if they have had surgery and been fully reassigned and told yes and thats the end of their involvement. i have written back and asked if they have seen a copy of the gender reassignment certificate. what else can i do other than this. its not like i can take pictures is it. what a horrible, intrusive situation this has all blown up in to.

A GRC does NOT give males carte blanche to use women's spaces. They have misunderstood the legislation.

Please keep fighting this OP. Ask Sex Matters for help. Who's your MP?

Iirc, having a GRC doesn't mean the individual has undergone any medical treatment to alter their appearance, neither hormonal nor surgical.

You can ask to see their safeguarding assessment, risk assessment and equality impact assessment in coming to this decision. You can also ask them if their have disclosed to their insurers that they now operate mixed sex, open plan changing rooms.

The pool isn't under any obligation to provide single sex changing area; they can do, but they are not obliged to

The management need to make it clear that the women's changing room is mixed sex, and perhaps clarify whether the men's changing is also mixed sex. They should change their signage to reflect that. Of course that's if they are prepared to follow through on their current line that this one male person's wants are more important than the rights of women.

Incorrect.

They are required to comply with safeguarding practices which will include sex segregation in intimate spaces.

If they get any money from public funds they will be required to comply with facilities standards which usually includes sex segregation for intimate spaces.

Sex segregation exists for a reason and is written into design codes for swimming pools to protect the dignity, privacy and safety of men, women, boys and girls.

If schools and community clubs use the pool they are required to use sex segregated facilities as part of their safeguarding practices.

Rosesinthehospital the centre manager says that because he is satisfied that they have undergone full gender reassignment surgery he has been told that he cannot refuse them the right to use the womens changing area. I have sent him all the links and information from this thread and he is going to go away and look at the issue again. He also said if i didnt feel comfortable with this i should use the family changing room. one person trumps all the rest of us then.

What about the showers?

If it's apparent than women who used to use the facility now no longer do so, because of the presence of this (or any other male) then that would back up the need for women only facilities, under the equality act.

OP have you asked the other women using the pool how they feel?

Forwarder yes I have. we are generally an older bunch of women that do this early morning swim and those that have been in the room at the same time are very unhappy. but they are all scared to say anything for fear of being branded bigots and also very unsure as I was of what the legal position actually is.

This is rubbish.

The person will have protection from discrimination, due to their gender reassignment, which is as it should be. Whatever measures they have or haven't taken towards this are irrelevant.

This does not give them the right to invade womens' single sex spaces.

I would urge you to contact Sex Matters.

Good that you have that in writing, tbh.

It demonstrates their lack of understanding.

You have many options.

Sex matters can help. Your local councillors, MP, the local authority. Are there any women's groups locally?

The other course of action open to you is to write to the papers. Many will be happy to cover this.

And of course, you can contact the police.

If this person would respect the wishes and needs of women and understand that women's rights to privacy, safety and dignity are protected in law, and use another changing space, there would be no need to do all this work.

Alternatively, the centre could make the signage clear, as suggested upthread.

So a male person, who jumps enough hoops, can use the men's changing facility, the family mixed sex changing facility AND the women's changing facility.

And has thereby successfully excluded women who cannot use mixed sex spaces from the entire centre.

Choice of three for a male, nothing at all for some females.

That's plain sex discrimination.

Yes. You could also call a lawyer, OP. Again, Sex Matters may be best placed to advise.

I'm really angry about this.

who jumps enough hoops - what hoops?!

I would push for the clarity, OP.

Are they saying that it is more important to exclude some women from any of their spaces at all to provide a male with inclusion in all their spaces? Why is exclusion and less favourable treatment ok to inflict on previously accommodated women to benefit one male who already has two accessible spaces to use?

Are they saying that they do not permit women the freedom of belief to perceive a person as male?

On those two grounds alone a court would have a very interesting discussion.

I'll add that the male should be fucking ashamed of themselves, but that should go without saying.

OP stated a person who was obviously a man in a costume with stubble and hairy chest