Transitioning man in the womens open changing room and communal showers at local swimming pool

[mummymeister]

I have been following the debates on trans men in women only spaces with interest. But, because I live in a very rural area in the back of beyond, I mistakenly thought it wouldnt be something that I had to deal with. However, today at our local pool, at the early morning lane swimming session, a person who was obviously a man in a costume with stubble and hairy chest came into the womens changing room which is open with no cubicle options and into the open shower, again no cubicle options. Almost 100% of the women at the early morning swim shower with no costume on, including me. We did politely suggest that he should use either the family room that has a shower or the limited mobility room that also has a shower. both would be empty early morning as no children allowed etc. Other than asking the company that owns the pool (ex Local authority swimming pool) what else can I do if this happens again. He was adamant he had every right to do this and several women just wrapped themselves in towels and left. any suggestions? I am struggling to see how the feelings and rights of one person trump those of the 8/10 of us using the facility this morning.

Or a women's changing room

"Hi receptionist. The women's changing being mixed sex, I've been excluded and need somewhere to change. Please could you direct me to your single sex provision for including female people who cannot use mixed sex facilities?"

Obviously completely inappropriate to require disclosure about why you may need single sex facilities, but you can point out the Equality Act does cover people of faith, culture, disability, belief etc, and inclusive means all of them. If they choose to make the women's facilities exclusionary to females by making them inclusive of males, then obviously there will be somewhere for those bounced out female clients to go? And why isn't all this on signage rather than embarrass and distress everyone by forcing them to deal with an issue of discrimination reactively rather than proactively?

I had an experience on the Women’s Gynaecology ward of a hospital where a man, who I can only assume identified as a woman (as he looked every bit like a man from his hulking huge man frame to his facial hair and deep voice - he did also have long fake painted nails and long hair dyed purple) was admitted to the room that I and two other woman were in.

He was clearly exercising his right to ‘be’ a woman and be on a womens ward in a room full of women. I had to question to myself why his rights had to overpower the rights of women who where in that room, when there was a poster out in the hallway which clearly stated that rooms were ‘SINGLE SEX’ and a patient would never be put in a position where they would be asked to share a room with a patient of the opposite sex.

I did not say a single thing against this person to them, the staff (who all came and swooned over said patient!) or to my family. I had asked earlier in the day before this person been admitted to the room to be discharged that day (I had been in hospital for a week and had been cleared the previous day by the doctors to be discharged).

When there was a change of staff they then made the assumption that I was asking to be discharged because of the man in the room, and I was treated horrendously, they kept on coming in and opening the curtains around my bed which I had chosen to close for my own privacy without asking me first, they tried to force me to stay and refused to get the meds that I needed to take once I had left the hospital. I ended up discharging myself and walking out.

It angers me to this day this man was able to ‘choose’ to be a woman and ‘choose’ to be in a women’s only space, however I couldn't choose’ to exercise my right to not share that space with him without being treated terribly by the staff.

Why on earth would a male be placed as an inpatient (or outpatient) of a gynaecology ward?

Therein lies the rub. The hospital has a patient who presents as a woman. The women's medical and surgical wards are full but there is an empty bed on gyny. Problem solved.

For the man and the hospital!. Alas not the women!

Funny that isn't it!

I bet they, conveniently, wouldn't be able to find a bed for a transman on the men's ward.

He was incredibly load on the phone to friends/family about the surgery that he had had on his urethra so I can only guess he was having transitional ‘bottom’ surgery which as a ‘woman’ was considered gynological.

@Boiledbeetle I hope that you don't think that I was condoning the situation.

Oh no. I know which side of the argument you are on! Don't worry

thank you everyone for all the huge support and information on this. I have a copy of the company's policy which I have forwarded to the swimming pool and made them aware of what happened and my concern that it would a) happen again and b) that they wouldnt know how to deal with it. I have booked in for my friday session as usual and wont be put off. i am keeping some photocopies of the policy to take with me and to give to anyone of the other women that swim at this time if they are interested. I guess you dont realise what a complete shitshow this is until it smacks you in the face and affects your own life.

And just point out indecent exposure is a crime and that the swimming pool should not aid and abet it.

Sexual Offences Act 2003, Section 66

A person commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally exposes his genitals, and
(b)he intends that someone will see them and be caused alarm or distress

Hope you enjoy your swim tomorrow OP.

OP, that's brilliant. Very well done. Have a good swim and remember we are all behind you.

I hope you get this sorted @mummymeister and a huge thank you for doing so.

I noticed that my local Primark now specifies that the changing rooms near the women’s clothing section are for women only. That is a result of local and national campaigns by women.

I would ask the staff to confirm what is meant by "women", if I were you.

If it means "all those who say they are women", then the changing room is in reality mixed sex.

@EveryWitchWaybutLoose - Primark defines a woman as anyone who identifies as a woman…. So the change rooms are still mixed sex.

Noting the use of pronouns in the Act, what if 'he' identifies as 'she'. Surely it would still be an offence? Also, I think the out for this individual would be proving their intent to cause alarm and distress. Although IANAL.

I think that's always the problem with those kind of offences, Icake.

As for pronouns, many laws seem to use the default male.

Oh buggrit @Brisland and @Chersfrozenface There was I being all optimistic!

Why don't transgender individuals have the courage of their convictions and change their genitals to be male or female accordingly?!

No such thing as a lady penis or man vagina.

The day it's campaigned to make your last sentence a legality is the day this country can go down in history as being totally fucked up.

The though that anyone could possibly announce they have a lady penis or man vagina doesn't bare thinking about.

Yet men who still have penises call themselves women and women with vaginas say they are men because of how they feel inside.

Fine; no problem if they feel so wrong why don't they transition their body?!

Those are still just cosmetic changes to appearance - and not always very successful ones.

Basically the body is still male or female, down to cellular level. Because humans can't change sex, any more than any other mammal.

Correct; but it must be difficult for them to feel like they do.

I would never be rude/unkind/refuse to employ (if I were an employer) a transperson.

However they baffle me tbh.

I wonder how many men in Afghanistan under the Taliban want to be women?