Transitioning man in the womens open changing room and communal showers at local swimming pool

[mummymeister]

I have been following the debates on trans men in women only spaces with interest. But, because I live in a very rural area in the back of beyond, I mistakenly thought it wouldnt be something that I had to deal with. However, today at our local pool, at the early morning lane swimming session, a person who was obviously a man in a costume with stubble and hairy chest came into the womens changing room which is open with no cubicle options and into the open shower, again no cubicle options. Almost 100% of the women at the early morning swim shower with no costume on, including me. We did politely suggest that he should use either the family room that has a shower or the limited mobility room that also has a shower. both would be empty early morning as no children allowed etc. Other than asking the company that owns the pool (ex Local authority swimming pool) what else can I do if this happens again. He was adamant he had every right to do this and several women just wrapped themselves in towels and left. any suggestions? I am struggling to see how the feelings and rights of one person trump those of the 8/10 of us using the facility this morning.

Women don't have to apologise for recognising a man as a man. Those who use language to confuse can deal with resolving the language issues.

Exactly.

It's a power trip. Probably with added sexual kicks. Women, preferably upset ones, are necessary for the experience.

I would complain and complain big time. This is not acceptable in anyway. If this was a discrimination case I believe the facility would lose. Single sex facilities are allowed on the basis of privacy and dignity and where people of one sex would quite rightly be upset by the presence of someone of the opposite sex because they are naked. Add to this the fact that there are alternative unused facilities for the person to use they would struggle to be able to argue a case that the person had no other choices.

That was in response to Roses' and Crimplene's posts.

the removal of social taboos such as men entering female changing rooms is why you get this emboldened entitlement. You asked him politely to leave and he said no. Chances are he enjoyed the power trip.

This happens all the time now, wherever facilities have been designated 'gender neutral'.

I have come across four men in the past year who were using the 'former' ladies lavatory even though they were clearly male, not even pretending to be transwomen. They clearly enjoyed making women feel uncomfortable and reacted with faux surprise when challenged.

I'd have called police and said there was a man in the ladies changing room at x pool, exposing himself to women.

OP, I would gently remind you that men don't ever have to make any physical changes to their body at all to get official documents with a female marker or, often, to "identify as" women and persuade venues that they can use women's spaces.

In physical terms, there may well be no "transitioning journey" whatsoever.

Unless facilities like this stick to the Equality Act and keep biological men out of areas designated for women, for good reason, those areas will be mixed sexm

There's no mention of him exposing himself from the OP

This. The swimming pool is completely in the wrong. They are perfectly within their rights to provide single sex spaces and to ask this man to move.

OP look at Sex Matters website and get yourself clued up, then go back to the pool and start asking questions.

This. Make a complaint.

Because she and several other women left!

In response to @Lockheart that was

He wasnt exposing himself. he kept his costume (womens one piece) on so I could definately not accuse him of that. If I called the police, I would still be waiting and he would be long gone. rural area, back end of nowhere.

I now feel very anxious about my next early morning swim (Friday) as I dont want to be stripped off and feeling vulnerable under the shower again so will most probably not shower this way here again now. I shouldnt feel like this, but I do and I just dont want to risk this happening again. if I see him in there on Friday, I will ask him again politely to leave and offer the alternatives and if nothing happens will go and alert the staff straightaway to ask him to leave. I now feel more empowered to do this and wont be overtaken by shock as I was this morning. Thank you to everyone who has offered their advice and support, it has been really helpful.

This.

Well done for challenging this OP and keep going. He's doing it for kicks. No decent human being would want to put others in that position. There are alternative facilities but using those won't intimidate and embarrass others.

If women are undressed and showering in a women's change room and a man comes in and starts showering and refuses to leave that is something you are well within your rights to call the police about.

Setting aside any 'transitioning journeys' he may be on.

It's an invasion of privacy in what you assumed was a single-sex space.

I would contact the pool and let them know that if it happens again you will have no choice but to go to the police. At least give them a chance to guide him.

Honestly women get so done over with this ideology. It's sexual harassment, at the very least. But they get away with it because gender.

@mummymeister fuck asking politely.

Very loudly over and over "you are a man this is the women's changing room. Leave now!" Just keep repeating and getting louder each time.

I think OP you really have to complain to the staff at the pool in the very first instance, including the pool's management. And if you know the other women, they should do this too.

Of course whether this individual was exposing themselves or not, they walked into a communal change room when women were in the state of undress. Either the management needs to utilise the exception under the EA and declare that it is for female people only, or they need to provide adequate private cubicles in a gender neutral format providing complete privacy.

They cannot have this both ways though if the women and girl's using that facility reject the arrangement as it is and the managers wish to remain 'inclusive' and 'safe'.

Actually boiledbeetle has a good point. Fuck politeness.

I remember a story recently where a queue was forming that was far too long at a post office or something and a woman said to everyone around her, "sorry for what I'm about to do" and then absolutely lost her shit, loudly and unapologetically, until the post office staff got their act together.

I am not saying it's the right action for any situation but surely ten years ago if a man came into the women's you'd be well within your rights to scream your head off.

Why not now? Pretend you missed the memo that TWAW and behave accordingly.

This is a genuine post - I am not trying to be obnoxious, just wanted to ensure you do have correct terminology for when you next need it, OP…

A biological male identifying as a woman = a transwoman.

A biological female identifying as a man = a transman.

Many people get confused, and it is daunting enough to challenge a male in a female only space, without getting fuddled by confusing terms.

Good luck for Friday.

I now feel very anxious about my next early morning swim (Friday) as I dont want to be stripped off and feeling vulnerable under the shower again so will most probably not shower this way here again now.

Isn't it interesting how he claims to have 'every right' to use the wrong-sex changing room. It's all about supposedly wanting 'equal' rights and anybody saying that they're standing up for women's rights is called a transphobe, a liar, a terf etc.

And yet, it's clear as day here that he is seeking to take your rights away from you (and I'm sure the other women will probably stop going as well), so that he can add them on to the equal rights that he already has. Not exactly the same rights but completely equal ones: i.e. there is an appropriate single-sex changing room available for all people of either sex.

If he's anything like a lot of male-bodied people insisting on using female changing facilities, he doesn't actually want just the room per se; he wants the room with women changing in it.

It doesn't make a huge difference to his perceived motives if he isn't actually exposing himself to you - the fact is that he is forcing women to expose themselves to a man in their normal usage of a room which is clearly designed for women to be naked/showering in and thus is designated as female-only. All decent men would understand this and would stick to using their own facilities without a moment's thought - there's no point 'looking for' a sinister motive; it has already been clearly demonstrated. It isn't like voyeurism is somehow a lesser violation than flashing.

I know you're rural, but are there other pools within reasonable driving distance? If so, I'd check their facebook pages to see if this isn't a roving creep that other women are making posts about. Somebody might've taken a picture of him, or nabbed his license plate or something. In my brain, where everything is a 90s movie, the ballsiest ladies would hold up towels as a privacy barrier for the others while everyone just silently glares at him with their arms crossed until he leaves.

OR

Just say "man".

This is a man.

Fuck their fucking terminology.

(I appreciate your post was genuine and don't mean to be arsey with you... it's just infuriating that we have to play these linguistic games. No. Just a man.)

For goodness sake. A man doesn't have to get out his penis or assault a woman to be unacceptable in their space. Just their presence is enough. I wouldn't want my own DH in the ladies changing rooms, or any of my male friends/ family.

If he was born with a dick, he’s not a chick. Sorry you had to suffer this. This bullshit needs to end. His rights shouldn’t trump all of yours.