Transitioning man in the womens open changing room and communal showers at local swimming pool

[mummymeister]

I have been following the debates on trans men in women only spaces with interest. But, because I live in a very rural area in the back of beyond, I mistakenly thought it wouldnt be something that I had to deal with. However, today at our local pool, at the early morning lane swimming session, a person who was obviously a man in a costume with stubble and hairy chest came into the womens changing room which is open with no cubicle options and into the open shower, again no cubicle options. Almost 100% of the women at the early morning swim shower with no costume on, including me. We did politely suggest that he should use either the family room that has a shower or the limited mobility room that also has a shower. both would be empty early morning as no children allowed etc. Other than asking the company that owns the pool (ex Local authority swimming pool) what else can I do if this happens again. He was adamant he had every right to do this and several women just wrapped themselves in towels and left. any suggestions? I am struggling to see how the feelings and rights of one person trump those of the 8/10 of us using the facility this morning.

Did you speak to the staff on duty and ask for the manager's details?

Did you complain to the manager ?

He does not have every right

The pool needs to make it clean the changing rooms are single sex ( birth sex ) as per the equality act

The local athletics centre, where I go for a slimming club, has notices on the changing room doors saying that no-one over the age of 8 is allowed to go into the opposite sex changing room. These have appeared quite recently - not there in January, when I first started going. Very pleased to see this and that they are still there. OP might ask the manager to make this clear at the swimming pool, quoting the EA2010 which specifically allows such single sex spaces.

I think this caught the staff completely unawares as well as they didnt really know what to say or do by which time the man had changed and left. Its going to happen again so I just want to have a plan in place of what to do and how to react quickly whilst also knowing what my rights are in relation to this issue. Personally I have no problem with gender neutral/shared toilets but an open changing room with no cubicles and a single large open shower area is not acceptable. I now have the written policy from the company which operates the facility and have taken a photo copy of it and will take it with me tomorrow. It has really put me off going but determined to sort this out now. I think some sort of relabelling of the two private changing rooms is necessary and will be suggesting that next time I go so its clear that transpeople undergoing reassignment should use the family room (with door and shower) or the limited mobility room with door and shower.

OP said it was a trans man, so presumably someone who is female. Unless it's a mix up and it's a transwoman (i.e. a biological male)?

I don't think that people should use the disabled facilities unless they are disabled, and I'm, pretty sure family rooms are for people with children. So single adults shouldn't be in there.

This is a scenario where any pervert can put on a woman's swimming costume and claim he is a woman. Complain and write a review. May be even contact your MP. And boycott them.

He's a man and you don't have to be coerced to pretend otherwise. It's an act if aggression on his part to try and make you. I'd make a formal complaint.

OP, raise hell. Talk to everyone you can. Management, local authority, EHRC.

Write to the papers. Write to your MPs, representatives.

You have the right to a single sex space, as laid out in the EA. Women are NOT obliged to accept a male in a space where they are dressing or undressing.

Please do NOT let this stop you from swimming or exercise. It's outrageous.

https://sex-matters.org/

This. I’m outraged you had to deal with this OP. Please raise hell

The title says transitioning man

Which I read as male wanting to be female

The opening line then talks about trans men

Perhaps op can clarify the (birth) sex

'a person who was obviously a man in a costume with stubble and hairy chest'

Suggests transwoman, no? A male 'in a costume'.

Transitioning man = man who thinks he's turning into a woman is how I read it.

I think it's quite clear from the OP and the context that this was a male person. Getting ratty at OP for not using approved terms is a diversion tactic.

Kick up a stink if you feel able, OP.

He was getting kicks from the power he got you exert over you all.

from what I could see, and I didnt spend a lot of time staring either at the chest or genital region, this was a man with chest hair, stubble etc at the start of their transitioning journey. i honestly have no idea whether they had a penis or not and did not see any breasts just a male looking chest. I cant "clarify the birth sex" any more than this. as I said, everyone was a bit shocked. I now understand that is something I should do next time this occurs. Just to be clear, the family changing room is a single room with a door and a shower in it. so only can be used by one family or one individual at a time. the same is true of the mobility impaired room - its a single room with a shower in it and a changing room. some of our ladies who have had breast surgery use them until they are comfortable enough to come back to the main open room. This is an adults only early morning lane swimming session for competent swimmers. no under 18's and a separate session is run for those who are mobility impaired.

So you don't know the birth sex?

The person could therefore be a female transitioning to be more masculine in appearance and legitimate in the female changing rooms ?

You can't exclude females from the female space just because they don't look female enough

Isn't it strange how women have to get their shit together with argument, observations and policy to challenge the absolute bloody obvious?

OP the removal of social taboos such as men entering female changing rooms is why you get this emboldened entitlement. You asked him politely to leave and he said no. Chances are he enjoyed the power trip.

Like PP said, raise hell. Not acceptable for any young girls who might be using the room.

This is why the EA needs clarification, otherwise women won't have a pot to piss in and will literally have to put up with their boundaries being walked over. Perhaps in this case, for the ego of the swimmer.

I see the men can be women, women can be men and no one can tell the difference posters are out in force across the threads this week.

Don't talk soft. It's clear from the OP words and context that this was a male born person.

PEOPLE CAN TELL.

So you think it will be ok next time for me to ask this complete stranger in a woman only space when I have nothing on because I am under a communal shower, what their birth sex is when its pretty obvious to me that this was a man. Should I ask him to strip off to prove what sex he is? I have a close school friend who transitioned from male to female some years ago and was fully aware of all the stages of that process. I know what I was looking at. it wasnt a woman trying to look more masculine, it was man, with a deep voice, adams apple and male characteristics.

The person could therefore be a female transitioning to be more masculine in appearance and legitimate in the female changing rooms ?

Trans men are generally fairly obviously women unless they've been taking hormones a long time and had breast removal surgery.

Why would a trans man go through all that and then claim to be a woman?

If they wish to act/live 'as a male' then how on earth do they think women's changing room is suitable for them?

Interestingly, I was asking only yesterday whether transmen use male facilities. Perhaps you can clarify? If not, why not?

Of course instead of making the women's changing mixed-sex, or taking up the family room or the accessible changing room, this person could just change in the male changing room. Given that they are male.

No women to upset in the male changing room though.