Transitioning man in the womens open changing room and communal showers at local swimming pool

[mummymeister]

I have been following the debates on trans men in women only spaces with interest. But, because I live in a very rural area in the back of beyond, I mistakenly thought it wouldnt be something that I had to deal with. However, today at our local pool, at the early morning lane swimming session, a person who was obviously a man in a costume with stubble and hairy chest came into the womens changing room which is open with no cubicle options and into the open shower, again no cubicle options. Almost 100% of the women at the early morning swim shower with no costume on, including me. We did politely suggest that he should use either the family room that has a shower or the limited mobility room that also has a shower. both would be empty early morning as no children allowed etc. Other than asking the company that owns the pool (ex Local authority swimming pool) what else can I do if this happens again. He was adamant he had every right to do this and several women just wrapped themselves in towels and left. any suggestions? I am struggling to see how the feelings and rights of one person trump those of the 8/10 of us using the facility this morning.

Yes.

Exhibitionism is wrong - and illegal. We all know that 'flashing' is recognised as a paraphilia and a red flag for future escalating sexual offenses.

Voyeurism is also wrong - and illegal.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/67

[F1(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification, he observes another person doing a private act, and

(b)he knows that the other person does not consent to being observed for his sexual gratification.

Exactly . We all knew how to react to men in places they weren't supposed to be a few years ago. Nothing has changed. Not in this country

they are relying on us being cowed by the male interloper. They rely on women being quiet and asking politely.

NO! Why should we!

Could you phone the pool now so or send an email and ask them what they intend to do if this happens again?

Boiledbeetle is absolutely right. There were 8/10 of you. He was well outnumbered. No need to be embarassed: tell him to get the hell out. Don't back off. Kick up a massive stink. And never ever refuse to use the changing room. The more women give in, the more these narcisstic pricks/pervs (delete as appriate) will do it. I am not victim blaming because the women are not victims, but we have to stand up for ourselves if this stupid ideology is to be defeated. Ask yourselves - what would KJK do?😡

Fuck their fucking terminology.

This. I was going to post this but toned down my language. Agree completely.

I am normally a very assertive and confident woman. I was completely thrown by this and have been pretty cross at myself since for being so shocked and not quick thinking enough. I felt very vulnerable and know that some of the older women there felt this as well and were very upset. everyone is so afraid of saying the wrong thing, the wrong word, the wrong terminology and so bending over backwards to be accommodating and not discriminating that I feel like women are being forgotten in all of this. You are (mostly) all right. Of course I shouldnt tolerate this and of course this man should be told to leave and the staff at the centre informed so that they can act as well. I have the centres policy in writing and will take that with me on Friday. I will not be embarrassed or worried about using the wrong word. I will tell him to leave and shout loudly about it. I have looked at all the references and websites and will print off things to take with me because i feel sure the staff will all want to avoid having to deal with this head on. Thank you to everyone for their help and support.

How do you know he was undergoing re-assignment? Most men don't have any surgery at all.

I was in a charity shop the other day and a bearded transwoman was trying stuff on coming out the small cubicle and trying to engage the female staff in conversation about the outfit - a tight fitting short dress - and 'pantyhose'. It was not my place to say anything and I was thinking live and let live but it did occur to me that I had never seen a woman do that in a charity shop and never heard many in this country refer to 'pantyhose'. I guess 'tights' sound duller.

No idea what the staff thought, nor if this anecdote adds much to the conversation but it was my first experience of this sort of thing so thought I would jot it down here, my impression was of someone attention seeking and pushing boundaries in a passive aggressive manner.

The OP said it was very obviously a man.

OP have you talked to the other women? Do you know them?

Please do raise hell about this, go to your local newspaper if necessary. He needs to be banned from the swimming facility at the very least.

You must stick up for your privacy OP. I have a trans family member and I can assure you they only use private facilities to protect everyone's decency. This person had a choice and was pushing their agenda on others. This isn't trying on trousers in Marks and Spencer, it was trying to engage with natal females undressed. I agree with @ArabeIIaScott I think they committed an offence due to the objections from the female facility users. I would tell the staff if it happens again you are calling the police.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12041657/Woman-fled-station-toilet-panic-catching-Russian-banker-staring-cubicle.html

This guy is getting prosecuted for voyeurism. How is it any different to the swimming pool man?

Look don't heap judgement on yourself for this.

We are surrounded by people using shame and attack and smears to produce exactly this effect. The constant drone of 'be kind' in the background has been very effective in silencing women, so that we are now at the point where - look! - a bloke walks into a room full of naked women and the women fucking worry they might be 'doing the wrong thing' by challenging him! Absurdity!

But it's sanctioned by the NHS, the government, the education system, the media and myriad celebrities. It takes nerves of steel to go against the dominant orthodoxy, not to mention the genuine risks presented by challenging a male when in a vulnerable state.

It's not you. You've done nothing wrong.

I only know them in as much as we go swimming at the early morning sessions together. i know some names and not others. its a sort of nod good morning type group/session. i will try and speak to people on friday. not everyone is there every day the same.

OP please raise a stink for any girls who'll use that space, they are rarely confident enough to speak up. If he gets away with it this time, what's to stop him going there when teenage girls are using it without parents present.

Remember the old fashioned flashers? These days all they have to do is say the magic words 'I feel like a woman' and they can go and flash in the swimming changing rooms.

Don't feel bad that you didn't challenge him immediately, OP. The simple shock and our "be polite and kind" social programming means that most of us would have basically the same reaction. This is what these men rely on.

You'll not be shocked next time. But I think it is worth not waiting until next time and raising merry hell with the pool now. If you get any crap about why you didn't say anything "at the time" then you say, truthfully, that you were shocked and confused and did not feel safe doing so.

You have the right to a single sex space, as laid out in the EA. Women are NOT obliged to accept a male in a space where they are dressing or undressing.

Please do NOT let this stop you from swimming or exercise. It's outrageous.

This! Bloody hell, the nerve of the man. Entitled, arrogant arsehole.

He committed the sexual offence of voyeurism against all those of you who were undressed: of course you were vulnerable and in shock, and didn’t know how to react in the moment. Please don’t blame yourself for being an unprepared victim of this man’s assault - although we always do tend to blame ourselves as a defence mechanism - you know rationally that ALL the blame lies with him, and there is nothing you could have said or done that would have prevented him from doing what he did.

The crime is that this kind of man is being enabled by society to inflict this on any or all of us, potentially.

Im glad you’re going to stand up to this bullying predator (whatever his intentions, a male person who deliberately inserts himself in a space where he knows female people will be unclothed qualifies for the term predator, in my book), and I wish you good luck on Friday. I hope the staff understand he has no right at all to be in there and make that clear to him, if he comes back. You know we’re cheering you on from here!

I think you should be contacting the pool now. You can explain to them why you did not raise it at the time (shock/surprise), if they ask.

@mummymeister I'm not surprised you reacted the way you did. You weren't expecting it. And in the moment of freeze flight or fight, you went for the safest option. Freeze. But, next time you will be prepared.

How do you know he was undergoing re-assignment? Most men don't have any surgery at all.

And even if he IS undergoing re-assignment, he can only re-assign himself biologically from a (presumably) bodily intact standard male to a male with an adapted body - both of which use the male facilities.

Female changing rooms are for biological females only, which is not something that he will ever have the capability to re-assign to, so it will never be appropriate for him to use them.

This is legalised indecent exposure and it's wrong.

In fact, why has nobody suggested the police?

If you feel up to it, OP, you can make a report of voyeurism or indecent exposure.