"Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/

I think this helps give another viewpoint to the "gay people are anti-trans" trope that is often used by the LGB-Alliance and Julie Bindel etc.

Lesbians often have to put up with harmful stereotypes that may deter them from coming out, and in recent years the "lesbians are anti-trans" is another stereotype on top of the existing ones.

Are you allowed to say on your profile, "I'm only interested in biological females"?

That wouldn't make you a "TERF" right?

You asked for examples of women being called transphobic for expressing their same-sex attraction. The article has several relevant examples. It seems you've shifted the goalpost. Did you read the article? Do you accept there are women who have been labeled transphobic for expressing their same-sex attraction?

"Are you allowed to say on your profile, "I'm only interested in biological females"? That wouldn't make you a "TERF" right? "

I believe that that is exactly the sort of thing they were saying wasn't tolerated and would never be acceptable to them

@MerlinsLostMarbles not trying to be a jerk but you seem to have gone from 'this never happens' to doing it yourself in one thread.

Accusations of being "transphobic" is just yet another tactic used to try to subjugate women. It should either be ignored, or defiantly agreed with.

A question I have is why are gender critical people or "TERFs" so keen to be allowed to go on Her which has made it very clear (see their Twitter) it doesn't want them?

Noone is being forced to join Her and lots of other dating apps exist.

Maybe women were drawn to it because it misrepresents itself as a site for lesbians. Which is clearly isn't if it includes those born male, and prioritises that over actual lesbians.

well I don't want to go on HER but I do want it to be a clear and universally accepted fact that sexual orientation is (also) a protected characteristic under the equality act of 2010 and if a company wants to tweet that all customers (with this protected characteristic) are (insult) and should never darken their doorstep again they leave themselves in an extremely actionable position.

Her is advertised as a lesbian app.

You are saying women uncomfortable with this should opt out? So men have taken another female space and filled it with male type behaviours and this is acceptable?
Sexual orientation AND women are protected characteristics. That is the law. Men should not be allowed to act as they do.

On principle I would not opt out in the way I do physically as online they can't physically touch us. But there are hardly any women left anyway I gave up months ago.

I am unaware of any dating app that is gender critical or supports gender critical beliefs. Saying go elsewhere when there isn't elsewhere shows how little respect you have for lesbian women

Responding to "If the transwoman did pass superficially, and the male was initially attracted to them genuinely believing they were female, then no. But if they went on to discover they were actually born male, and were still attracted to them, then yes" but this applies to all posts saying similar things

Attraction isn't something you can control and it doesn't go away when you hear that someone wasn't born female. That would imply that it's conscious, and that somehow your attraction changes when you learn that it doesn't fit into a specific definition of your identity (that TW are not W).

Implying that this new information (that person was born male) should change someone's attraction is dodgy territory, as it's implying that it's a conscious choice.

Again, this isn't something that's being said to gay men who are open to dating passing trans men. Somehow its only lesbians who date passing trans women who seem to get slack and our identities questioned. I'd like to reiterate that this is misogyny.

No it's not transphobic for a lesbian to not want to date someone with a penis. But it's also never okay for women's identities to be policed. It goes both ways.

As I said, I've been out and proud for over 20 years and I've never, ever been told by another woman 'you are bisexual', partly because anyone who meets me knows what a big lesbian (not sure how mumsnet feels about the d word, don't want to risk this getting deleted, but hopefully you know what word I mean) I am. Yet 5 minutes active on mumsnet today and I'm told this.

Tell me again who is erasing the identities of lesbians?

It simply means they are bisexual.
No big deal.
You seem to have a massive issue with that.

@Jonei just saying the same thing over and over again without responding to any of my points doesn't make you right

It's not just "TERFs" they don't want apparently.

They don't want anyone willing to say, "biological females only".

They are saying it's "hateful" to be same sex attracted.

Do you agree with that or not?

Reece you said:

i'm a lesbian, came out when I was about 16, and have only dated womem

And you also said this (in the same post):

I'd have no problem with dating a trans woman at all, I have done in the past

Hence, you are bisexual. Because lesbians are same sex attracted. And you are attracted to women (same sex) and transwoman (born male).

The meaning of words are important. I don't care what you tell yourself you are. But I'm not going to lie and change the meaning of words because that makes you feel better somehow.

Again, this isn't something that's being said to gay men who are open to dating passing trans men.

And again, men who exclusively date transmen are straight.

Sounds like discrimination to me. Discrimination against lesbians.

Thanks for the context to the quote and accurately what she said, rare to see on here
(Genuinely didnt know the full until now, just people saying sexual racist but no source or actual quote)

You may be mixing up her statement in a BBC article, with a previous email she was supposed to have written.

Apparently there was a leaked email in which it was said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225111/Stonewall-brands-lesbians-sexual-racists-raising-concerns-sex-transgender-women.html

Yet now it has emerged that months before the article appeared Stonewall’s chief executive Nancy Kelley wrote to the editorial director of BBC News to denounce Lowbridge’s work in an apparent attempt to get her piece stopped.

In her email, Kelley suggested that the BBC article would end up being ‘transphobic’ because it represented trans women as ‘sexual predators’, which was a ‘central anti-trans argument’.

She further complained that the ‘highly toxic’ cotton ceiling issue was ‘analogous to issues like sexual racism’.

Unfortunately they seem to have got confused with the sources and so misrepresented things.

I would never date a transwoman for the simple reason that he is a man. Also off-putting is the thought of the cognitive dissonance involved in being in a relationship with such a person

Of course attraction can change once you get to know more about the person, and that's fine. If it is ok to change once someone knows the other has hairy toes, supports Manchester United and not City or is racist then it is also ok to change once they find out that it is a TW and not a woman.

TERFs are women who love biological women, then? Ergo, all actual lesbians are TERFs? Thus, lesbians are the new witches in this latest witch-hunt.

"I think this helps give another viewpoint to the "gay people are anti-trans" trope that is often used by against the LGB-Alliance and Julie Bindel etc."

Is this what OP meant to say?

Why is it okay for men to colonize women's spaces in a post-colonialist world?

"The meaning of words are important. I don't care what you tell yourself you are. But I'm not going to lie and change the meaning of words because that makes you feel better somehow."

I agree completely, @Jonei. I am not a lesbian, but I wholeheartedly support all those pushing back against men, usually still fully male, anatomically, who define themselves as lesbians and try to coerce or manipulate lesbians (adult human females who are same SEX attracted) into having PIV sex with them! To me that feels very rapey and abusive.

Woman is another word that does not need to be redefined by autogynephile men. It means adult human females, and no-one is 'assigned (a gender) at birth' - their biological sex is created in the womb and observed (with a near perfect degree of accuracy, imo) at birth.