"Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/

I think this helps give another viewpoint to the "gay people are anti-trans" trope that is often used by the LGB-Alliance and Julie Bindel etc.

Lesbians often have to put up with harmful stereotypes that may deter them from coming out, and in recent years the "lesbians are anti-trans" is another stereotype on top of the existing ones.

The hydra. I knew there was an analogy, just couldn't think of it.

Yes. She says twaw and are lesbians if they say they are, and that she's same gender attracted, but her current and previous girlfriends have all been female. What are the odds?!

Here we have in real time the problem that arises when people think men can turn into actual women.

Transwomen are male. That's why they are called trans in the first place.

Some women would date a transwoman, but that makes them bisexual, because in the real world there are two sexes.

The mental gymnastics these people need is exhausting to think about.

I've already answered this. Because of laws of consent any adult can accept or decline sex with any other consenting adult.

I've already made it clear that this isn't what the article is about and I'm unaware of anyone saying that this (a cis-woman declining sex with a transwoman) is "transphobic". The only people who seem to be saying this are gender critical people, not transpeople from what I've seen. Unless you could link me some examples?

Sexual racist Nancy Kelly?

At this point starting around 2015 with the colonization of men in Lesbian spaces I can firmly say as a Lesbian;
I want nothing to do with trans people.

My sole interest is in women's rights and wellbeing, of which Lesbians are a subset

ok I'll have a go
vegan is a word that means a person who doesn't eat any animal products
vegetarian is a word that means that a person doesn't eat meat or fish but do eat things like dairy product and eggs
Some people eat no meat but do eat fish and shellfish
Some people eat no red meat but do eat white meat and fish
Some people eat most meat but not that particular meat e.g pork / beef
Some people eat all sorts of meat but are super horrified that anyone eats horse or dog because they don't see those animals as food animals.

All of the above people exist and are fine, the range of diets humans follow is extremely varied. Almost every person who would say that they are following a vegetarian or vegan diet have at some stage eaten something that contained an ingredient that wasn't. And that's ok too. People aren't obliged to be perfect vegans to be vegans.

Nevertheless the words vegetarian and vegan are super helpful to people who are following a vegan or vegetarian diet in explaining what they do and don't eat. It can be annoying to be told you should be alright with the tuna sandwich because the aunt (or whoever) knows a vegetarian who eats fish.

you do you, fancy who you fancy, sleep with any consenting adult that'll have you and floats your boat

But tasty as it looks the black forest gateaux actually does contain gelatine eggs milk and cream and isn't vegan. If you want to eat it go ahead though.

I think I had it about 4 times in the space of a month on lesbian dating apps.

It was not nice. I'm single now because I can't take the pushy manipulation of men when I try.

I don't know how female born real lesbians date but they clearly have left the apps

There is nothing anti-trans in defining lesbian and gay as same-sex attraction.

But you already knew that. You're just here to stir the pot.

I don't think that feeling an initial rush of attraction to someone who is the opposite sex to the one you are attracted to, but who presents really well as a member of the sex you are attracted to, makes you instantly forfeit your previously-held sexuality and adopt bisexuality. Especially if the facsimile is convincing at first glance. It's possible to be fooled for a moment.

But if once the truth was revealed and it was clear that, in the event that you had sexual intercourse, it would be with someone with the other kind of genitals than the type you generally deal with, that's the point at which you are deciding for yourself whether you are bi, or bi-curious. And of course there's nothing wrong with being bi, it's just not the same as being either heterosexual or homosexual. If in that circumstance your response is "actually, no thanks" then no worries, no change.

Just remembered who the 'apartheid' idiot from Garden Court Chambers was. Cathryn McGahey. This was another gem from her:

"You can persuade a lesbian that she might want to - that she could want to - have sex with a trans woman in a way that was not coercive."

'Persuade' a lesbian that maybe she'd like to give cock a try. As if 'persuade' sounds any better than 'coerce'.

We used to call shit like that conversion therapy.

Here you go. Some examples.
You're welcome.

https://reduxx.info/from-her-to-him-the-downfall-of-a-lesbian-dating-app/

completely agree if you're trying to explain to lesbians why they'll enjoy playing with a penis you are on the wrong side of this issue.

Bisexual people exist and they are not morally superior due to their open mindedness. Neither are they inferior in any way that would suggest saying if a person is happy to sleep with (some) people who are males and (some) people who are females they are bisexual would be an insult.

@CoozudBoyuPuak yes I think that's a good way to explain it

Dennis Riley is one infamous example of this, with his video src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/k5GYlZKfBmI&app=desktop" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen> Are genital preferences transphobic? where he tries to shame lesbians for not being interested in the penises of men who call themselves women.

So that threw a bit of wood on the fire.

I'm not a lesbian so I don't have an immediate dog in the fight.. but I do have an involvement by extension. How should I respond to an approach by a transman who has no bodily modification? I have no sexual interest in your vulva, clitoris, labia or vagina. Does that make me transphobic?

In the example given the TW 'passed' and was post surgery.

I don't see how that poster suddenly isn't a lesbian for dating a person who appears as a woman, even with their clothes off?

Of course there's all sorts of other stuff going on underneath that makes that person not an actual woman but if we're talking only about pure physical attraction - if it walks like a duck and looks like a duck?

The poster raised a good point - if a man sees a TW presenting with all the normal visible female characteristics and finds that attractive without immediately noticing they are actually a TW, is that man suddenly bisexual?

Ah I think I understand the position we are supposed to adopt in order to be compliant, non-hateful and non-transphobic.

We are not allowed to talk about, or have words to describe, genital preferences for the type of body for the persons we have sex with. Having such words, or wanting such words is wrong. Quite literally the love that dares not speak its name.

Which is not to say we have to actually have sex with the people who don't fit our preferences, we just can't say we have such preferences, or do anything to pre-filter the people we date to rule out the ones we know we won't be interested in. Or have social events at which we will be more likely to be able to readily meet the people we might want to go further with, by excluding those who have no chance.

Complaining about this is transphobic.

The original article is reporting the good news that a lot of people have given up fighting the inexorable victory of this new mindset.

The purpose of the article is to make each woman who isn't happy about it feel more isolated, more afraid to object, more shamed and uncertain of her right to have a word to describe her sexual orientation.

The infamous 'can't tell'.... speaking as a Lesbian the transwomen (men) in my social group looked like large men in wigs with Adams apples, brow ridges, big hands and feet; a small child could tell they were men.

The killing note is that they behaved exactly like demanding self-absorbed males, not caring the least bit how we women felt!

The poster raised a good point - if a man sees a TW presenting with all the normal visible female characteristics and finds that attractive without immediately noticing they are actually a TW, is that man suddenly bisexual?

If the transwoman did pass superficially, and the male was initially attracted to them genuinely believing they were female, then no. But if they went on to discover they were actually born male, and were still attracted to them, then yes.

Well yes.

I don't see how that poster suddenly isn't a lesbian for dating a person who appears as a woman, even with their clothes off?

Lesbians are born women. A male identifying as a woman, who has also had surgery to try and make them present superficially as a woman, isnt a lesbian.

Re the dating app Her, it's hostile to TERFs, not to lesbians.

They've made it very clear on their social media that all women are welcome but TERFs and trolls aren't.

There was some polling from 2018:

https://www.them.us/story/cis-trans-dating

"Virtually all heterosexuals excluded trans folks from their dating pool: only 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men chose a trans person of either binary gender. But most non-heterosexuals weren’t down for dating a trans person either, with only 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians being trans-inclusive in their dating preferences....

38% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they wouldn’t date a trans woman — only a trans man."

So while lesbians mostly aren't interested in "girl dick", this polling does have them as being more "trans inclusive" than other groups. Whether this is actually seen in real life, I don't know.

Nope. You are wrong.

My experience was I was rudely pushed and pressured to date men. It was insidiously hostile towards my boundaries. I never once put my gender critical beliefs in my profile or gave it as the reason I didn't want to talk to them. But they don't accept a polite "doom not interested"