"Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/

I think this helps give another viewpoint to the "gay people are anti-trans" trope that is often used by the LGB-Alliance and Julie Bindel etc.

Lesbians often have to put up with harmful stereotypes that may deter them from coming out, and in recent years the "lesbians are anti-trans" is another stereotype on top of the existing ones.

Yeah I see we're still on 'being homosexual is like not sleeping with black people' (I mean wtf, black people always weaponised in this racist way to leverage the Martin Luther vibe) and 'nice lesbians do sex with men/all the lesbians I know are doing it'. Oh and 'along side the above I identify as no homophobia to lesbians is happening. Including identifying as the threads with it on, including this one, not having happened.'

Bloody lala land.

I’ve noticed that tik tok is currently awash with American gender ideologists redefining lesbians (i wish I were kidding) ‘non-men who are sexually attracted to non-men’. And claiming anyone who objects is transphobic.

It’s unbelievable that a men’s rights activist activity that seeks to coerce lesbians into having sex with biological males and vilifies anyone who objects to this is being presented as anything other than extremely nasty misogyny. It amazes me that people presenting biological
males redefining lesbianism to gain sexual access to women’s bodies as ‘social justice’.

Maybe being ‘transphobic’ isn’t the worst thing imaginable. If not wanting to have sex with biological men is ‘transphobic’, maybe we should be viewing it as extremely positive for lesbians to embrace that.

I'll add I'm not sure of the point of this.

Currently men have forced their way into women's spaces and just plain made women deal with it (and everything those men choose to do) or be excluded.

You cannot exclude homosexual women from lesbianism though. Whatever you say or try to bend it into meaning in your posts here and in your own mind, however much you exhort me to consider sex I really don't want with people I'm not at all attracted to as some kind of bizarre sex based social duty, you do realise the majority of us will just be quietly cracking on with being homosexually female? And perfectly clear that this is always and only exclusively going to mean other biological females. Since that's what homosexual means.

No one will be popping round to check up on me and confiscate my lesbian licence. Because that would be even weirder than trying to nag homosexual people into unwanted straight sex.

It doesn’t sound like you’re familiar with the campaign - it’s primarily focused on the fact that two women in a relationship have to go through a number of paid-for rounds of IUI before they can have IVF on the NHS, while a man and a woman can have IVF on the NHS as long as they’ve been trying to conceive (at zero cost) for a certain length of time.

Is this lesbian a female one or a male one?

She is a cisgender woman

"cis" - snigger

Grow up

A woman. No need for a prefix. Adult human female.

Replacing "same-sex attraction" with "same-gender attraction", as Stonewall do, is entirely homophobic.

A female that is happy with dating either sex is called a bisexual. Not a lesbian.

I’ve never asked her who she has dated or would date, all I know is that she’s a lesbian, and is happy to regard trans women who are attracted to other women as part of her community.

It’s ridiculous that this article is basically saying that the association of lesbianism with sexual attraction to female people is dangerous and it’s stopping lesbians from coming out.

Maybe the author could consider how her insistence that being an actual lesbian (in the homosexual sense) is transphobic and that real lesbians - nice lesbians - have sex with people with penises is itself likely to be putting lesbians off coming out.

internalised homophobia and self-flagellation in the name of ‘transphobia’ is a horrible thing to be promoting in lesbians.

Trans women who are attracted to women are straight men and in no way part of the LGB community.

Maybe she’s internalised the idea that she’ll be a hateful bigot if she does anything but welcome biological men into the ‘lesbian’ community.

Ah ok, well if she is attracted to women and born males who identify as women, then she would be bisexual. Not a lesbian. Lesbians are same sex attracted.

Just checking, am I right that the dynamic on this thread is a poster who is not a lesbian is telling other posters who are lesbians that they are lesbianing wrong?

Then they're either bisexual or heterosexual, but not a lesbian by any reasonable (i.e. not Stonewalled) definition.

That would not surprise me in the least.

Amy properly skirts around every thing in that article. It says nothing really, just that 18 to 24 year olds support trans people.

That's so vague it's meaningless, and Amy says absolutely nothing about her own personal life which is a wonderful and sensible approach, because it's private.

The Amy's of this world have little wiggle room for honesty in the 2020s which is an interesting thing in itself.

Fortunately older people who do know what words mean are able to push back whether Amy wants us to or not.

It's a funny old pastime, showing up on Mumsnet to moan at mums for not agreeing men are women!

Lost marbles are you a lesbian? Because I am and I can assure you I have been called anti trans for refusing to date someone with a penis who identifies as a woman. So please don’t assume you can say that this isn’t happening it is!

Amy writes:
But that coupled with a constant barrage of negative media headlines, politicians being interrogated on their definitions of what makes a woman (why are we even asking men to define women anyway?

More to the point, why are we even allowing men to define themselves as women?

@MerlinsLostMarbles OP have you missed the fact that the CEO of “lesbian” dating app HER has said that any poster who puts anything “exclusionary” in their bio, like wanting only to match with biological women, is to be chucked off the app for not including transwomen in their possible matches? Seems pretty much like dictating who lesbians should sleep with to me. No?

Or is the idea that lesbians can sleep with who they like — eg. other biological women — but just aren’t allowed to say that’s what they prefer? In which case, what’s the difference from the old homophobic injunction of “don’t ask don’t tell”; the love that dare not speak its name; do what you like but just don’t dare talk about it in case it offends men and righteous society, and so on?

Live a lie, in other words? How is that not homophobic? And if gay men aren’t subject to the same injunctions, how is that not deeply misogynist as well?

So which is it? Lesbians aren’t allowed sexual agency; or they are but they just aren’t allowed to talk about it? Which brand of homophobic misogyny is it; the former or the latter? Or both, just for good measure?

that is not true, would you like receipts?

Lesbian is a word that used to mean homosexual women but now does not, some people including some lesbians are annoyed by that as having words to describe yourself and your sexual orientation seem a pretty key right.

I don't accept that that annoyance is anti-trans. I also don't accept that anyone owes sex to someone else to make them feel pretty and accepted.

You seem to be in with the cool kids so let me ask you your advice I think the 'best' word available is pansexual but do correct me if you disagree... what do you call someone who is:

who is sexually attracted to transmen, afab enbies, cis women, (women who would just call themselves women as they aren't familiar with gender ideology and women who prefer to be called women because they reject gender ideology)

@MerlinsLostMarbles "noone is being called "anti trans" or "transphobic" for who they do or don't want to sleep with."

I will accept that it is so hard to believe that any reasonable person would tend to not believe it until it happened to them.