WOMEN SPEAKING - Let Women Speak - Australia & NZ tour

[Bosky]

Despite many pleas, the original thread was hijacked by people (mostly from the UK) who displayed ZERO interest in watching, appreciating and discussing the ACTUAL SPEECHES:

Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour

IMHO This was profoundly disrespectful to the OP, @ZombieMumEB, who said she hoped to attend some of the events, to Mumsnetters (particularly Australians and New Zealanders) who wanted to discuss the speeches and to the brave, articulate and impassioned women who gave the speeches.

This thread is to discuss the WOMEN SPEAKING.

Please direct complaints about KJK to one of the perennial "We hate Posie" threads.

If you are a UK socfem with a genuine interest in discussing the socfem approach to re-educating the Labour Party, ie. rather than complaining about KJK, start a new thread. This one is about and for the women in Australia and New Zealand who spoke at the #LetWomenSpeak events

Rather than engage with derailments, can we please agree to report them or ignore them?

Australian live streams

Sydney - Sat 11th

Brisbane - Sun 12th

Perth - Tues 14th (see video for Chapters)
Intro (KJK)
Women in Australia (KJK)
Women Speak (KJK)
Sophia Mormont
The Truth
Grandmother
Trans Activist (KJK)
Trans Rights (KJK)
Change Rooms
Im Australia (KJK + Speaker)
Kelly Jane
Maggie (several Speakers)

Adelaide - Thurs 16th

Melbourne - Sat 18th

Melbourne Post Event Chat
(Moira Deering MP, KJK, Katherine Deves, Angie Jones)

Happy Mothers Day! - Sun 19th (KJK)

New Zealand Mon 20th (KJK update)
(Zip-fiddling misrepresented as "White Supremacy" signal)

Hobart - Tues 21st

Canberra Tomorrow - Wed 22nd (KJK update)

Canberra - Thurs 23rd

New Zealand Here I Come (KJK update)

NZ TBC

Auckland - Sat 25th
Wellington Sun 26th

NZ Free Speech Union - 23 March
Justice Gendall has rejected the application to overrule the decision by Immigration New Zealand to allow entry for @/ThePosieParker into the country.
This is the only right result for a nation that values tolerance, the ability to debate, and free speech.
https://twitter.com/NZFreeSpeech/status/1639045241360781312

ThePosieParker - 24 March
Free speech is not an easy principle to uphold, but it is worth protecting. Without it democracy dies.
https://twitter.com/ThePosieParker/status/1639078293990252547

Of course I condone their violence...

Hmm. That poster has shown their true colours, by stating their approval of the Trans Zealot violence.

I hope they can do this. (But it'd be wise not to use a name associated with KJK)

@Whaeanui

I understand and agree with your sentiments, regarding ignoring disruptive posters, who post wilfully inaccurate crap.

... But it's so hard to let it go unchallenged.

Sorry.

WTF? That's an outrageous lie.

You've just said that you condone their violence, so how can it be a lie?

(But it'd be wise not to use a name associated with KJK)

Bollocks.

I’d like it streamed on her channel and even have a phone held up to the mic with her on the other end like they did with the woman prisoner in America.

Oh FFS, that was a typo.

For clarity.

I absolutely don't condone TRA violence - or any male violence.

It you read any of my previous posts, that should be pretty clear.

They are to busy deleting copies of KJK tweet on all threads

So what your saying is that sometimes you may misspeak or say something in not quite the right way?

Hmm....

I mean, even if you do come out and say that you don't agree with something we can pretend you didn't and can still use it against you

Because that's how it works, right?

Bit like KJK and the nazi slurs.

Oh FFS, that was a typo.

Oh. Well, it must be disappointing that the first time someone takes you at your word, you've spoken wrongly.

I assumed it was a typo but no it’s not clear you hold men wholly responsible for violence against women.

There’s an element of she made me do it in your posts.

The first time KJK said it was an accident, or she'd been misrepresented, I believed her. The next few times, too. But I started feeling uneasy.

When these things keep happening, when it becomes a pattern, and her response to the far right turning up are so piss poor - after Brighton she went on record saying everyone was welcome, in response to far right attendance - then you have to realise it's not a mistake, something else is going on here.

That, or live in denial and chuck insults at anyone who wants to discuss WTF is going on.

Sending love and solidarity to all women in NZ affected by this (and all) male intimidation and violence.
Sending love and solidarity to KJK, thank you for sticking up for women always.

I really hope that the UK press are waking up to this. I want to see big broadsheet articles in the Sundays setting out exactly what has happened on this speaking tour with an interview with KJK.
Its like a fucking witch trial but without the trial. Despicable.

To address some of the accusations being made on here towards myself and others who have attempted to point out that refusing to properly denounce Nazis and tell them they are not welcome is wrong....

You're saying people don't have a duty to denounce Nazis properly or they are "thinking like a man if they demand this (denouncement) from others?" Really? You don't feel you have a moral duty to do this? Or don't want to?

You are really attempting to equate people calling for that denouncement to a rape victim being judged for what she's wearing?

Wow. Sorry, I disagree. I and many others will always oppose those who refuse to specifically tell Nazis they are not welcome.

I and many others will also vociferously oppose misogynists who say raped women are asking for it.

Many here seem very abusive and not willing to listen to why so many people are concerned about the refusal to denounce fascists.

There was also no condemnation of the violence towards Senator Lidia Thorpe, your arguments are disingenuous - so violence towards women is okay sometimes in your book then? Oh wait, I know, you'll just deny that it happened. While accusing me and others of being misogynists or jealous because we can't accept Nazi enablement.

The abusive language on here being directed towards people who are calling for KJK to simply tell Nazis not to come is eye-opening.

I will not shut up about this no. I've been criticised for replying and then criticised for not replying. I have not used abusive language once but I'm the one who's thinking/ behaving like a man?

Ever heard of the term crypto-fascism? I have. You all not wanting to reveal "your power level" loves?

Stop slinging insults then 🤷🏼‍♀️

I don't know how to discuss arranging events safely without recognising that the event organiser bears some responsibility for keeping their attendees safe.

Yes, violent men are responsible for their actions, but that doesn't take away responsibility from the event organiser to try to keep women safe.

Dr Jessica Taylor made her name with feminists when she published a book on victim blaming. It's a useful tool for looking at the world. But you can be too absolutist about it. JT says that giving girls access to self defence lessons is victim blaming. This just isn't real world stuff. It's possible to both hold men entirely responsible for their actions AND also try to give your DD some tools to help her escape a dangerous situation.

Similarly, it's possible to both hold men entirely responsible for their actions, while asking event organisers not to unduly put women at risk. If you claim all attempts to keep women safe are basically victim blaming, where does that stop? Should organisers of women's events not liaise with the police, as it's not their responsibility if violent men kick off? Or not take any other measures to keep women safe?

Do you accept there are measures we can take to minimise the risk of violence at such events? If not, then stop blaming the police for inaction.

If you do accept there are steps we can take to make events safer, then the opposite is also true - there are things event organisers can do - or neglect to do - that make them more risky.

Discussing them is not victim blaming.

Incidentally, using victim blaming as a defence for KJK is a bit rich, seeing as she's on record as saying she wouldn't get raped as she wasn't the kind of woman who'd allow it, or words to that effect. Now, that is victim blaming.

Another one condoning violence against women.

After all, you've not properly denounced it.

The abusive language on here being directed towards people who are calling for KJK to simply tell Nazis not to come is eye-opening.

When you repeatedly excuse violence by ‘ and didn’t denounce them the right way’ and repeatedly post on this thread despite being told multiple times to keep this to being about those women that wanted to speak then you are going to get women telling you exactly what they think of your misogyny.

Why can’t you all take this to the other thread? All of you.

Really? You don't feel you have a moral duty to do this? Or don't want to?

No I don't feel a moral duty to denounce Nazis! The everyone I don't like is a Nazi meme made that into a joke.

Wow. Sorry, I disagree. I and many others will always oppose those who refuse to specifically tell Nazis they are not welcome.

Do I need to put a sign on my front door?

Some of the posters on here...thick as mince. We see you.

As I said upthread, I read and respected that this thread was about the NZ women speaking and didn't comment. I only joined in once the discussion moved on.

I am now only replying. If you want me to stop posting here, stop throwing wild accusations at me or posting lies.

Else what you're saying is, actually people are allowed to derail this thread, but only if it's people you agree with, and sorry but that's bullshit..

Here's the other thread for those who want to keep denouncing women, please take it over there:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4770726-standing-for-women-nz-tour-discussion-to-prevent-further-derailing-of-the-thread-for-centring-the-women?page=6&reply=124910644

This thread is for the NZ women (and Aus women) to speak.

I really hope that the UK press are waking up to this

There's a good article in the U.K. Daily Mail (not the batshit Australian version glorifying the violence) about it today with lots of support in the comments, including from Aus/NZ.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11898429/amp/I-didnt-realise-women-hated-Womens-rights-campaigner-Australia-New-Zealand.html

@gwrachod you are being asked to move to the other thread and ‘defend yourself’ there. Please do so.