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Original poster

Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

880 replies

dunBle · 30/01/2023 19:36

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

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Original poster
dunBle · 30/01/2023 20:35

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/01/2023 20:06

That's only part of it though, the first bit's https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1620132248329801728 asking her about Katie Dolatowski as well as that one asking about the accusations of homophobia, racism etc. I've not seen the whole ITV News interview, but the clip from Peter Adam Smith asking "are all transwomen women?" is also a fun watch, as she's reduced to near incoherence at one point.

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 20:36

I think we can all see now exactly why Dentons advised things like:

^Tie your campaign to more popular reform

Avoid excessive press coverage and exposure^

www.iglyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IGLYO_v3-1.pdf

No way does this survive in the sunlight.

Gilmorehill · 30/01/2023 20:38

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/01/2023 19:49

There's nothing she (or any of the TWAW brigade) can say that is coherent or logical. It's an abusive, incoherent, male dominated set of fantasies that have been allowed to gaslight the population, oppress women and groom numerous children into believing their bodies are somehow wrong and need fixing.
Forcing men into spaces where unconsenting women and girls undress and are vulnerable is what they want and they've managed to achieve this using all the underhand tactics laid out in the Denton's report.

FINALLY people are being held to account for what they've done.

Brilliant post.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 30/01/2023 20:39

both the ITV and Channel 4 clips are things of beauty. I wonder if the BBC will grow some balls too...

AmongstTheCosmos · 30/01/2023 20:39

@LikeAnOldFriend frankly, I don't fucking care. They aren't women. I don't have anything in common with them and the goals of the TWAW are in direct conflict with the rights of women and girls.

RudsyFarmer · 30/01/2023 20:39

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:25

Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?

I know you all feel strongly about this but I feel genuinely sad at how the understandably emotive issue of trans women in prisons has whipped people up to a point where there's such glee in posts like this, and underneath it all is such a dismissive and negative view of all the trans women in our society and how they feel - which is often I would imagine desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against.

Calling a group the "trans women are women brigade" is so unkind to trans women everywhere who deserve to be recognised.

Transwomen stumbling across a thread on the Feminism. Sex and Gender board on Mumsnet? Why would they be over here stumbling about?

ArcticSkewer · 30/01/2023 20:39

Very very funny.
Enjoying the schadenfreude

pictoosh · 30/01/2023 20:44

FluffyBunni · 30/01/2023 20:32

I don't see why people on this thread are feeling triumphant about this interview - she wasn't really caught out imo and I don't think this will go down as a disaster interview for her in particular. She said that "some" people are transphobe and racist etc, which of course is true.

I agree.

Nicedayout22 · 30/01/2023 20:45

The facial twitching when he's starting: she's really not used to trying to win arguments with facts and rigor anymore,is she?

DisappearingGirl · 30/01/2023 20:45

PacificState · 30/01/2023 20:34

@LikeAnOldFriend I do think about that, for what it's worth. But (if I can put a challenge to you too) have you thought about what it's like for a woman to be called hateful, a bigot, a transphobe, a homophobe, a right-winger, a Karen, a bitch etc etc just for pointing out the utter madness of the policies that now even sturgeon herself cannot defend? It's been absolutely fucking horrible, and there's been years of it, millions of words, thousands of insults, thousands of threats.

All for pointing out that there are differences between men and women.

The glee you're seeing isn't glee at the discomfiture of trans people. It's glee at the downfall of the people who've ceaselessly whipped up abuse against us for years.

This was just what I was about to say.

I actually do feel sorry for old-school trans people who were just getting on with things.

I don't think most trans women are abusive, just as I don't think most men are abusive. But I don't think it's sensible to put males in women's prisons. Mainly because vile abusive males like pink leggings penis rapist (great description) would obviously take advantage of this.

And women have been shouted down and called bigots for years for pointing this out.

Any glee at seeing Sturgeon finally being challenged is a result of this.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 30/01/2023 20:45

My biggest focus is really about the effect of the ideology and validation approach on children.

I have been promised that there is government guidance coming on how to deal with gender identity in schools (by my MP and the relevant minister). No idea when, but I’m sure it’ll be soon because politicians never lie.

Same goes for EHRC guidance on single sex spaces. I’m crossing all my fingers that they point out how it is perfectly legal, and often desirable, to segregate by sex.

We absolutely must keep up the pressure too. Once all the “rapist in women’s prison” stories have been followed up by the media, we will need to push the NHS policy mixed sex wards to the forefront of public consciousness.

NoFlowersForEmily · 30/01/2023 20:47

"Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?"
No.
Because they are men.
And this is the feminist forum, we centre women and girls.
Would be happy to give them directions to an appropriate place if they've stumbled (how?) Into somewhere they dont belong and are not particularly welcome.
My thoughts and concern end there.
No men in women's prisons sports or spaces. Ever.

BlackRookInRainyWeather · 30/01/2023 20:47

It’s tragic that it took pink leggings rapist to bring this into the light but it is clear it is allowing journalists to question policy more openly.

queencactus · 30/01/2023 20:48

I don't think NS came across particularly well. She is normally calm in front of the cameras but before she started speaking she looked nervous.

bellac11 · 30/01/2023 20:49

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/01/2023 20:34

I don’t know Like

do you think TW ever wonder how women feel when they reduce us to stereotypes of dresses, hair & lipstick, when they line up in women’s sports teams, or take up spaces on courses designed to increase women’s representation in STEM or politics?

do you think TW ever wonder how women feel when we’re told yo “enjoy your erasure?” Or told we need to accept TW (men) into womens rape survivor groups?

do you think they ever give women’s feelings a second thought?

or would thar be a big fat no???

And when sex offences, child abuse offences and other violent crimes 'committed by women' are rising in the statistics because they are actually committed by men?

picklemewalnuts · 30/01/2023 20:50

If transwomen are in any way decent human beings, they too will be relieved that the ridiculous policy of putting rapists in women's prisons is being challenged.

Are you telling me, @LikeAnOldFriend , that it's in anyway acceptable for the likes of Katie Dolotoski and the current rapist to be imprisoned with women?

Animals like them are an embarrassment to decent transwomen, and they should be thrilled it's being addressed. Why wouldn't they be?

AngelinaFibres · 30/01/2023 20:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:50

"Transwomen stumbling across a thread on the Feminism. Sex and Gender board on Mumsnet? Why would they be over here stumbling about?"

I saw this at the very top of the active threads when I clicked in to my mumsnet app, and I'd imagine all others will too.

I do totally understand that the reason you're all so passionate is a desire to protect women's rights, and that's obviously important to me too, but there's the issue of all individuals who experience prejudice and discrimination, including women but also including trans women and men.

I know I'm derailing in joining this conversation, so please feel free not to answer but in seeing some of you deny completely that a trans women is a woman, I wonder if you can tell me if you can accept a woman who has transitioned to a man as a man, or if it's only this way around that it's not acceptable? Do you accept when a person is fully transitioned their chosen gender identity, or never at all?

SomethingLikeThisNow · 30/01/2023 20:51

I wonder if TRA were thinking #BeKind to women all the way from "Die In a grease fire" to "Decapitate Terfs"??? Hmm

mrshoho · 30/01/2023 20:51

What an absolute plank Sturgeon is.

It is rather satisfying that in the end it came down to the mistreatment of women in prisons to put a halt to this crap. Their obscene strategy to push through this ideology in prisons to make way for acceptance in every other part of society failed. Because so many Women do care about women's rights and refuse to put £££s before principles.

bellac11 · 30/01/2023 20:52

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:50

"Transwomen stumbling across a thread on the Feminism. Sex and Gender board on Mumsnet? Why would they be over here stumbling about?"

I saw this at the very top of the active threads when I clicked in to my mumsnet app, and I'd imagine all others will too.

I do totally understand that the reason you're all so passionate is a desire to protect women's rights, and that's obviously important to me too, but there's the issue of all individuals who experience prejudice and discrimination, including women but also including trans women and men.

I know I'm derailing in joining this conversation, so please feel free not to answer but in seeing some of you deny completely that a trans women is a woman, I wonder if you can tell me if you can accept a woman who has transitioned to a man as a man, or if it's only this way around that it's not acceptable? Do you accept when a person is fully transitioned their chosen gender identity, or never at all?

Easy answer to that

Trans men (women) are not men

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/01/2023 20:52

oh for heaven's sake

insisting that you are literally a member of the opposite sex (something that let's remember, is impossible) reveals disordered thinking

we don't tiptoe around people behaving in a delusional manner. it doesn't help them

StephanieSuperpowers · 30/01/2023 20:52

I don't think people are pleased because sturgeon was terrible, she could have been worse, but because finally the questions are being asked and everyone can hear just how poorly thought out the answers, and by extension, the policies, are.

Rainbowshit · 30/01/2023 20:53

Serves her bloody right. Did she really think that all this would just go away? That people wouldn't pick up on every single case of the things that she never said would happen happening?