Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

[dunBle]

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

Yes, I noticed the twitching too. I thought it was nerves. Seemed to stop when she was talking.

yeah, I know

but I would like @LikeAnOldFriend to tell me if they think men who enjoy role playing as women have literally changed sex. it would be nice to get that nailed down

I'd happily nail a few things down. If only they'd let me.

I am looking around for my fucks to give and…. I’m afraid I don’t have any.

High time Sturgeon was called out on this. Hopefully she is toast, along with that bill. The question is, why now are journalist calling this out, after years of relative silence?

Single sex hospital wards cannot come soon enough. I was very ill in a receiving ward in a Glasgow hospital years ago when an alcoholic man, there to dry out I think, climbed into my bed. I was utterly terrified and the nurse was alone on the ward, almost as scared as I was.

Calling a group the "trans women are women brigade" is so unkind to trans women everywhere who deserve to be recognised.

You’ll be pleased to hear that the ‘TWAW Brigade’ is not actually a group of transwomen, it is a mere loose affiliation made up of all sorts of folx who happen to share the same neo religion.

It includes men who say they are women and some men who don’t say they are women, and women who say they are men and also some women who say they are feminists, like Nicola Sturgeon.
Plus some people who pretend they don’t have a sex, even though it’s obvious they do, because humans are mammals and that’s how mammals make baby mammals 🤷‍♀️

This

"It's an abusive, incoherent, male dominated set of fantasies that have been allowed to gaslight the population, oppress women and groom numerous children into believing their bodies are somehow wrong and need fixing."

People can wear any clothes/lipstick they like.

I'm sure most if us don't care.

But they can't change sex. It is impossible. Hard luck.

LikeAnOldFriend

If you want to identify as a woman, ok.

But respect biological women and don't demand to go into their single sex spaces. Anywhere. Ever.

We don't want you there, for a reason. Men commit 99% of sex assaults.

We want our safety and privacy. Our rights trump yours.

But don't you think an alarmingly short number of years ago it was acceptable in general society to hold a view that "being attracted so someone of the same sex shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness / conversion therapy, not to be allowed to continue with this".... And now we've thankfully moved on from this.

I agree with you, I don't think gay or trans people have a mental illness or need converting.

However I still don't think any males belong in women's prisons. I do accept that males who are gay, or trans, or various other groups, are probably more vulnerable in prison, and I'd happily support any initiatives to make prisons safer. But I still don't think males should be allowed in women's prisons.

A politician not apologising for a male rapist in a female prison is like something from Brass Eye. It’s just mad.

I presume the laughing is some kind of nervous tic. I hope to god it's not that Sturgeon thinks the subject matter is actually amusing. That would add insult to injury.

Oh and @LikeAnOldFriend : a woman is always a woman, a man is always a man. Trans women are always men. Transmen are always women. Because nobody can change the sex they were born as. Biology 101. And no man should be in women's spaces.

It is like Brass Eye Thomas

I care more about women

Unfortunately the laughing isn't a nervous tic. She uses it a lot in the Scottish parliament. She did look uncharacteristically nervous though.

@LikeAnOldFriend
Women have had enough of being kind.

So I really couldn't care if trans identified males are upset.

No idea why it quoted the wrong quote! Sorry Rex x

But don't you think an alarmingly short number of years ago it was acceptable in general society to hold a view that "being attracted so someone of the same sex shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness / conversion therapy, not to be allowed to continue with this"....

Irrelevant. Gay men and women have never demanded that their sexuality encroaches on anyone else or required anyone to have to violate their own dignity in order to accept their sexuality. TW demand exactly that. And we say no.

I think we buried all the remaining fucks last Friday night?

“the female prisoners in our society and how they feel… desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against”

There you go @LikeAnOldFriend - I edited your quote so you can understand the situation from the other side of the debate.

Our concern is for women and children, if you want to prioritise adult males… well, you do you, Boo 😘

I’m giving up! 🤣🤣

I know I'm derailing in joining this conversation, so please feel free not to answer but in seeing some of you deny completely that a trans women is a woman, I wonder if you can tell me if you can accept a woman who has transitioned to a man as a man, or if it's only this way around that it's not acceptable? Do you accept when a person is fully transitioned their chosen gender identity, or never at all?

Never at all. 'Gender identity' is nothing choosing which particular bunch of outdated, sex-based stereotypes you fancy. But you are born either male or female. No amount of clothing, make-up, copied mannerisms, appropriation of characteristics, hormones or surgery can do even the tiniest thing to change that. And that goes for transmen just as much as transwomen. It's pretty bloody obvious why women are more concerned by TWAW than TMAM though, wouldn't you say?

Norma

@LikeAnOldFriend

I respect trans people. I just don't think that their change of gender makes them the opposite sex. Sometimes sex matters, sometimes it doesn't.

Trans women are not generally dangerous, in the same way as men are not generally rapists, or volunteers at schools are not generally predatory paedophiles, but that's not enough to dispense with safeguarding. (Trans women offend at the same rate as men according to the statistics we have, so there is no reason to treat them differently as regards women, though they deserve protection from men). Lots of us are cross, because until now no one has been remotely interested in what female people want, just male people. That's one reason why lots of us don't see TW as women - if they were women, their needs would be ignored!!

Trans women are also not female for sporting purposes. Again, the discussion that they require inclusion is male centred and not science based.

TW are not female. Sometimes this matters. If TW and TRA campaigners could reflect on this, rather than insisting they are indistinguishable for all purposes and that being female (we were not allowed woman, now TRAs are tying to keep us from using female as a biological category) is a feeling rather than a (sometimes extremely difficult) biological reality then everyone would be able to thrash out a compromise.

But don't you think an alarmingly short number of years ago it was acceptable in general society to hold a view that "being attracted so someone of the same sex shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness / conversion therapy, not to be allowed to continue with this"....

Trans people should be free to live and dress and think as they please. Perhaps they even need their rights protected, but they can't change sex and men can't be in women's spaces.

Frankly, you might as well transition from yellow to purple for all the relevance it has to your sex and material reality, or all the effect it should be allowed to have on anyone else through law or policy.