Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

[dunBle]

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

My god, she's awful. I suggest that it's not capable of being denied in any real sense that she's not thought this through and is in fact supporting a homophobic anti-woman movement and therefore is much likely to be racist and otherwise bigoted than the people she was mindlessly slinging mud at.

@MrsOvertonsWindow
Beautifully put! Please may I use this?

I genuinely can't decide if she is a true believer who is now being faced with holes, a soft believer (a "be kind") who has now realised she's in the shit, or if she never believed it at all.

I don't like Nicola Sturgeon but I do believe she was a soft believer.

I have a friend the same. She doesn't see the awful stuff that's been happening but the idea of being kind and welcoming to men who have lived lives believing they are women and who finally have the courage to live as women is a very strong one for her. When you mention the likes of Graham then she truly believes they are the extreme exception and that TRA abuse etc. doesn't really happen and is excaggerated.

How can she not see it? because she's a high flier who works 80 hours a week and spends her free time with her family. She's not online, no twitter, no forums, and because it's been so poorly reported on over the years for fear of upsetting transwomen, she just has a limited view of what has been happening.

Every now and then our understanding of mental health takes a huge leap forward. That is something to be celebrated.

Unfortunately, there’s this pesky thing called “reality” where some things are possible and some things are not. I cannot flap my arms and fly. No matter how much I want to. Men cannot become women. Even if they really, really want to. However, it is (and always has been) possible to be attracted to members of the same sex.

It is really fine to say that people who refuse to accept actual reality need help. Whether that be learning to live with their current bodies or learning to accept the limitation of physical transition. For any individual, the right mental health support should be found. But not by expecting everyone else to go along with a delusion.

underneath it all is such a dismissive and negative view of all the trans women in our society and how they feel - which is often I would imagine desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against

I read that wrong to start with and thought you were actually acknowledging that women feel desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against when their biology is appropriated, and their spaces invaded by men. But no, apparently you're not bothered about that 50% of the population.

That was glorious.

Mind you, if she has to resign and they try to reanimate Big 'Eck, at least HE knows the difference between XY and XX, since he was pretty good at sex pesting a few of the latter (allegedly).

No group is more marginalised than Women.
A man from boyhood has nearly always had advantages compared to women and girls.

For a man to want to sidle in to women’s spaces to my mind is deeply insulting and grossly unfair.

Dress how one likes, but dresses and wigs cannot
CANNOT ever make a male begin to understand what it’s like to be a woman or a girl ,
any more than I can know what it’s like to be a strong boy or man.

The two are very different.

But don't you think an alarmingly short number of years ago it was acceptable in general society to hold a view that being attracted so someone of the same sex shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness / conversion therapy, not to be allowed to continue with this".

Conflation of sexuality with 'gender identity' is ridiculous and was a very sneaky trick. You might just as well say that, because it is terrible that interracial relationships were once forbidden or frowned upon, we shouldn't say that people can't identify as whatever race they like. The two things are not connected. Being (quite rightly) free to have a relationship with any consenting adult you choose is not remotely the same thing as demanding that the world agrees (or legally recognises) you as something which you categorically are not and never can be.

I’m a bit worried that she still doesn’t get how serious all this is and how incoherent she sounds.
Why else would she and her advisers think it was ok for her to be interviewed by ITV and Channel 4 news and answer questions about her idiotic policy!!

The only reason the transwomen would get upset when they come here is because you've gone too far in convincing them that the lie is the truth. And that is what makes the be kind mantra absolutely cruel. Shining the truth in a cruel way is torture but it gets to your soul when you've really taken a lie into your life. There's no need for the truth to be shoved in their faces cruelly. But when we said the truth nicely you called us names and insisted on sharing intimate spaces with us. You want women to care? Well you need to start caring about women.

Ps it is not the same as being gay. Being gay is a fact - how do you know you are gay? Because you want to have sex with people of your sex. No one else needs to pretend for you to be gay. Being trans in its current form is a denial of reality and you are asking other people to lie about what is in front of them. If the "ask" was instead to observe social niceties/be kind (in a smaller sense)/use chosen name etc rather than to pretend in all circumstances then it wouldn't be so controversial.

PPs @LikeAnOldFriend, the suicide rate for trans people seems to peak after full transition. Have you thought about the fact that absolute pretence might not be the best answer for trans people? Certainly not for children, but even in other circumstances it would be hard to believe that people could consent to medical procedures without accepting that their reality will be different from a true sex change. At some level, trans people will always have to accept that their body is not biologically that sex - for reproduction, for medical purposes etc. Some campaigners seem to be very angry and I think this is at the route of it.

It's almost as though peter and ciaran have been mulling over what to ask when the day finally comes. And, o happy day, here it is!

Did a single trans woman stumble here? I dont think so, it's not known as a t#$fy

Site for nothing. How many of them cared enough about us to you know, not invade our spaces?

I feel genuinely sad that plenty of women lost jobs, were silenced with the threat of losing jobs, were raped by a trans woman in hospital then gaslighted for a year, that so many women lost out in sports either never made it to the team or lost a place on the podium that was rightly theirs. I feel genuinely sad that we were called disgusting misogynistic names, that more than one (although one would be one too many) were left out of life because trauma/religion/ whatever meant they could not take the chance of being in a vulnerable position with a trans woman. I feel,genuinely heart wrenching sad that women have been locked up with men of any gender. It's enough to lose your freedom, but torture to do this with men too. They were all unseen and unheard until now. No one gave a shiny shit for them.
You feel any genuine sadness for them? Or is only men you feel sad for?

And finally we have to say twaw brigade because we are banned for other descriptors.

If she is forced to resign she will just be replaced by another head on the hydra.

I don't think there is a single SNP member in the Scottish Parliament who isn't absolutely drenched in gender ideology.

Absolutely correct.

All this. With bells on.

Amen.

Hmm, NS looked a bit flat and defeated in that interview for sure. She'll never back down on her general stance imo as she's a megalomaniac and can never be wrong. However she is looking weaker by the day and will hopefully soon be ousted, fingers crossed.

I have reverted to my old username in celebration of the fact we now seem to be able to say this? awaits deletion

Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?

Surely not half as bad as they'd feel about Wee Nic and her fellow (supposed) trans allies cheerily going on record to say that a trans-woman is only a woman up until the moment she commits a crime, and thereafter she's not a "real woman" and belongs in a male prison?

Et tu, Brutus, comes to mind.

People who are gender critical and reject Self ID are far more consistent less hypocritical in their position.

This will bells on. Finally people are waking up

100% this. Forcing the press was key, she thought she was being clever and forcing Westminster's hand.

Absolutely. The press could no longer ignore it.
It was overreach that brought it to this. If they had voted for the amendment to keep men out of women's prisons it may not have blown up like this.

By Christ! If they can't handle what's being said on here then they need psychiatric help!

The feelings of men who say they are women Vs the very real threat of sexual violence against female prisoners.

Guess which one I don't give a fuck about about?

Housing male prisoners, sex offenders or not, in the female prison estate is a human rights abuse akin to torture as far as I'm concerned so don't ask me to care about hurt feelings.

And yet, they voted against that just a month back.