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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

880 replies

dunBle · 30/01/2023 19:36

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

OP posts:
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GailBlancheViola · 30/01/2023 20:14

HermioneKipper · 30/01/2023 20:11

There’s a special place in hell for Sturgeon after trying to sell women down the river for her mad ideology

There's a special place in hell for everyone (and I mean everyone) who supports this destructive ideology so Nicola won't be short of company.

Mollyollydolly · 30/01/2023 20:16

It's brilliant to see, but I don't believe it's happened because people suddenly care about women in prisons, it's because it penetrated the Westminster bubble with the section 35 and all those journalists who cowardly avoided it had no choice but to report on it. And right at the moment pink leggings penis rapist appeared - it was a gift.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 30/01/2023 20:16

I knew somebody would comment on the homophones! My autocorrect is to blame.

borntobequiet · 30/01/2023 20:17

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/01/2023 20:06

Thank you. My goodness, what a mess.

borntobequiet · 30/01/2023 20:18

Sorry @PastMyBestBeforeDate
I just couldn’t resist.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/01/2023 20:20

ha ha bloody ha

seeing her squirm to justify her bullshit is satisfying

she could be one of the idiots who pops up on here to tell us we're all homophobes (or even homophones). she's got just as much reasoning as they have

this is what happens when you don't think it through kids

Johnnysgirl · 30/01/2023 20:21

This is fucking glorious! She's an utter disgrace.

titchy · 30/01/2023 20:22

Mollyollydolly · 30/01/2023 20:16

It's brilliant to see, but I don't believe it's happened because people suddenly care about women in prisons, it's because it penetrated the Westminster bubble with the section 35 and all those journalists who cowardly avoided it had no choice but to report on it. And right at the moment pink leggings penis rapist appeared - it was a gift.

Yes you're quite right, but what fortuitous timing.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 30/01/2023 20:23

No you're (or your) fine Born. Grin

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 20:25

The clips are great. The second one: "it's [my accusations of homophobia etc] not capable of being denied in any real sense"

Okaaaaaaaayyyy

But these accusations are also not capable of being proven in any real sense either, are they?

Is this what the 🤡 is for?!!

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:25

Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?

I know you all feel strongly about this but I feel genuinely sad at how the understandably emotive issue of trans women in prisons has whipped people up to a point where there's such glee in posts like this, and underneath it all is such a dismissive and negative view of all the trans women in our society and how they feel - which is often I would imagine desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against.

Calling a group the "trans women are women brigade" is so unkind to trans women everywhere who deserve to be recognised.

Scout2016 · 30/01/2023 20:26

I'm not sure the strategy of repeatedly saying "it was the prison service's decision" about Katie D (ie. definitely nothing to do with me!) is going to wash very well. Pesky prison services, with their crap risk assessments and bad decisions that are just like every other country's, and which poor Nicola is absolutely definitely in no way responsible for. 🙄

bellac11 · 30/01/2023 20:26

I have been wondering for a while what the next steps are though

So firstly I hope that this isnt limited to just the issue in prisons. What about men in hospitals, in positions over vulnerable women who pretend they are also women, what about school toilets, public toilets, changing rooms etc

Next, if self ID is rightly given some regulation around it, what would that look like?

So lets say, in my view, people who say they are the opposite sex need therapy or intervention before any gender recognition or gender reassignment certificate is given, people who cant cope with the process (either because they are in denial about their own MH and so wont engage with the therapy or assessments) or because they are in it for nefarious reasons (perpetrator men) wont engage with the process, so wont receive recognition

But in the local clothing shop, the shop worker is there at the changing rooms and Barry comes along pretending he is Belinda and waltzes through and the shop worker says 'excuse me Sir this is the womens changing rooms' and he says 'well I am a woman'

What then, how does it get challenged?

My biggest focus is really about the effect of the ideology and validation approach on children. There really needs to be clarity about sex, biological sex and that gender concepts are restrictive sex stereotypes that people buy into to say 'Im not a girl, Im a boy'. A girl suddenly announcing this at the age of 13 or whatever is in need of decent therapy, not validation of what she is saying. We dont do it to anything else, like the anorexic who says shes 'fat', we dont put her on a diet.

Calmdown14 · 30/01/2023 20:27

It's brilliant but really a complete fluke that the trial coincided with the section 35.
Where we'd be without that stroke of luck (despite the efforts of many) is very frightening

Johnnysgirl · 30/01/2023 20:28

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:25

Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?

I know you all feel strongly about this but I feel genuinely sad at how the understandably emotive issue of trans women in prisons has whipped people up to a point where there's such glee in posts like this, and underneath it all is such a dismissive and negative view of all the trans women in our society and how they feel - which is often I would imagine desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against.

Calling a group the "trans women are women brigade" is so unkind to trans women everywhere who deserve to be recognised.

Recognised? They're not women, that's the fundamental fact that needs to be recognised, wouldn't you say?

littlbrowndog · 30/01/2023 20:29

Imagine there was a time on here when you got a ban for saying
all that’s said up ☝️

BethFromThisIsUs · 30/01/2023 20:31

I don’t believe for a single second that she truly believed that TWAW. She’s just dug herself into a hole.

There must be another reason she’s peddling this nonsense.

my god I hope this is the end for her.

FictionalCharacter · 30/01/2023 20:31

Mollyollydolly · 30/01/2023 20:16

It's brilliant to see, but I don't believe it's happened because people suddenly care about women in prisons, it's because it penetrated the Westminster bubble with the section 35 and all those journalists who cowardly avoided it had no choice but to report on it. And right at the moment pink leggings penis rapist appeared - it was a gift.

Pink leggings penis rapist has no idea how perfect that outfit was for waking a few people up. No wonder the photo was cropped in most of the reports, showing only the top half and not the glorious leggings.

FluffyBunni · 30/01/2023 20:32

I don't see why people on this thread are feeling triumphant about this interview - she wasn't really caught out imo and I don't think this will go down as a disaster interview for her in particular. She said that "some" people are transphobe and racist etc, which of course is true.

feelingcadoubleledlove · 30/01/2023 20:32

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:25

Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?

I know you all feel strongly about this but I feel genuinely sad at how the understandably emotive issue of trans women in prisons has whipped people up to a point where there's such glee in posts like this, and underneath it all is such a dismissive and negative view of all the trans women in our society and how they feel - which is often I would imagine desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against.

Calling a group the "trans women are women brigade" is so unkind to trans women everywhere who deserve to be recognised.

Transwoman are bloody recognised, all the sodding time.

RiderOfTheBlue · 30/01/2023 20:33

@LikeAnOldFriend So once again we should put men's feelings above our own should we?

cherry2727 · 30/01/2023 20:33

This reply has been deleted

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StephanieSuperpowers · 30/01/2023 20:33

@LikeAnOldFriend , I'm afraid you pushed too far. Be kind is no use or protection to women and it's now finished. You should have stopped with reasonable aims.

PacificState · 30/01/2023 20:34

@LikeAnOldFriend I do think about that, for what it's worth. But (if I can put a challenge to you too) have you thought about what it's like for a woman to be called hateful, a bigot, a transphobe, a homophobe, a right-winger, a Karen, a bitch etc etc just for pointing out the utter madness of the policies that now even sturgeon herself cannot defend? It's been absolutely fucking horrible, and there's been years of it, millions of words, thousands of insults, thousands of threats.

All for pointing out that there are differences between men and women.

The glee you're seeing isn't glee at the discomfiture of trans people. It's glee at the downfall of the people who've ceaselessly whipped up abuse against us for years.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/01/2023 20:34

I don’t know Like

do you think TW ever wonder how women feel when they reduce us to stereotypes of dresses, hair & lipstick, when they line up in women’s sports teams, or take up spaces on courses designed to increase women’s representation in STEM or politics?

do you think TW ever wonder how women feel when we’re told yo “enjoy your erasure?” Or told we need to accept TW (men) into womens rape survivor groups?

do you think they ever give women’s feelings a second thought?

or would thar be a big fat no???