Gutted that someone I thought might be GC isn't

[pandemuertos]

NC for this.

In my dept at work, we NEVER discuss any of this, but we do talk a lot about books. The other week a young woke colleague brought in a book by someone called Juno Dawson and said something like "it's like a trans Harry Potter, she's really having a go at JKR" in an approving tone. I didn't comment.

Now, another colleague, I've always had my suspicions might be GC, as she's a bit older, very sound of judgement imo and even though we never discuss it, I have always suspected/hoped. Then yesterday she said something on her fb like "I've just finished the Ink Black Heart, she might have some dodgy opinions but wow, the woman cAn write"

And I just feel gutted. I'm tempted to comment (about the book, which I have read, but also about how much I love JKR) but wonder if that will just cause a world of pain for me.

We had some AWFUL training a few months ago (I posted on here at the time but then got it deleted as I was worried it was outing) - but it was the usual stuff- sex assigned at birth, promoted mermaids, the woman even had a link to binders on her own webpage. I complained about it to my boss, and was taken seriously to be fair, but I was gobsmacked that no one else to my knowledge seemed to have an issue with it and just nodded along.

I was listening to an interview between Louise Perry and Julie Bindel the other day where Perry said it was clear, because of recent developments, that the GC side has "won" this "war" but it just doesn't feel that way for me.

I just feel gutted and depressed about it. Just wanting to vent really.

These women are centering men over women though, because they think that being a man is better than being a woman.

Why do these girls and young women not want to be women? Why is being a woman seen as so abhorrent? Why do they think being a transman, the closest they can get to being a man, is so much better than being a woman?

They view women as second class citizens and so are trying to opt out of their second class status.

Therefore is doing a lot of heavy lifting here! It isn't a moot point at all. It underlines how relevant sex rather than gender is.

To get back to the OP, I had a similar experience. A friend loves Harry Potter but said 'it's a shame that JKR has such a horrible personality'. We ended up having a conversation and whereas the reality of women being incarcerated with male sex offenders was dismissed (depressingly) by a handwaving comment of 'that's just an extreme', she did begin to acknowledge that perhaps female and male bodies being intrinsically different means that mixed sex sporting events are unfair on women. I hope It's at least started a train of thought. It's hard though - the silencing effect has meant that women don't feel able to even begin to discuss things irl.

I also find quite a lot of those who say 'JKR = bad' have not read her essay. I've said before that that is what peaked me. The threatening, aggressive responses to it was eye opening.

Curious - Freespirit, have you read JKR’s essay? Did you think it contained problematic views, and if so, what were they?

‘The gender criticals’? Do you understand that this is dehumanising language that you are using?

Do you also use ‘the transes’ or ‘transgenders’ or similar?

The effect of dehumanising language was very recently shown very clearly when a regular poster who uses terms like that for women who disagree with them; then dismissed violence that was being used against women who disagreed with them. Either didn’t see the acts as violence, or saw the acts as justified.

It can be a manipulation tactic (either subtle or explicit) to allow people who disagree with a person’s point of view to then be demonised and monstered.

It also groups people into a large hive mind so their opinions can be dismissed rather than addressing the issues and addressing the nuances.

I recently had a similar experience to the OP. Someone told me they lived HP but hated JKR. I just answered "oh why's that?" Unsurprisingly, they couldn't tell me why.

lgb alliance pictures very old people it’s gonna die off soon.

And fuck! Can you show your deep prejudice any brighter?

Not only that but you seem to be ignoring the fast growing number of young women who are posting on line now about their experiences and about their fight to maintain safeguarding protections and sex based rights.

And the court cases in the USA being brought against policies that have harmed young women and girls. Being brought about by young women!

Yet JKR’s essay is so very reasonable
The main point of challenge would be her pointing out that TWAW is a biological untruth, and therefore in some cases socially unacceptable

While I will agree with you there are certain societal norms that is not just everything to be a trans-child hence why many have to seek psychological help as well with their dysphoria

I thought psychological/psychiatric “treatment” comes under conversion therapy and trans supporters want it banned?

Posted too soon …. That doesn’t make her unsupportive of trans people

lgb alliance pictures very old people it’s gonna die off soon.

And fuck! Can you show your deep prejudice any brighter?

Depressing isn't it. It's as though some people cant grasp that the, er, chronological nature of time really isn't limited to those who happen to be a bit further along it.

@Oddieconvert How would you react if your children told you that Madrid was the capital of France? Or that the Norman conquest was after the Reformation? Or that 2+2=5?

I would say that there may be a select few dodgy men but here’s the thing we never ever ever make any law because there are a few minority of people that might be dodgy or criminal.

@Freespirit42 what are you talking about? Of course we make laws even though criminals are a minority in society. Only a teeny tiny minority of people are terrorists but we all have to go through bag scanners and knife arches before getting on a plane.

Tell them to read as much as they can about the issue, and then if we still couldn’t agree - I’d suggest that we agree to disagree and move on

And you?

oddieconvert - same way I’d react to anyone who professed gender identity views, ie ask lots of questions. Unsurprisingly, my dc are feisty in their defence of their own views, and willing to adapt their views if they come across a better argument. They are GC, which includes being supportive of their trans/questioning friends, but understand no one can change sex

They are indeed.

Across several different polls run by completely separate organisations for very different reasons.

It is absolutely hilarious to see the dissonance at play in people using ‘young people are so tolerant and the ‘old people are going to die off’ and that ‘young’ people are supposedly going to ensure a better life for all when it may be that those ‘young people’ are now realising that there are major issues and the growing number of young females voicing their concerns is key to that, but that if it was left to that age group those young females would be denounced, isolated and shunned from society.

What the fuck is going to happen with government policy when that age group gets into positions of power and have retained those intolerant stances?

And yet, people celebrate this group’s intolerance…

Dissonance alert. loud clanging building to extreme…

It's almost like some people don't care about safeguarding at all isn't it?

I've found in real life, almost everyone I talk to agrees that safeguarding and boundaries are important.

The "this never happens" argument is laughable now.....

'Be kind to trans people but old lesbians can't die soon enough.'

Wow.

It must depend on where you work. In my workplace they brought out a scheme where we were supposed to choose our pronouns, gender identity and sexual orientation. It turned out everyone, even the most socially progressive, was strongly GC.

I would say that there may be a select few dodgy men but here’s the thing we never ever ever make any law because there are a few minority of people that might be dodgy or criminal.

Of course we make laws because there are a few minority of people that might be dodgy or criminal……

“Choose your sexuality”? What on earth has this got to do with your employer?! It’s none of his/her/their damned business!

But good to know most were GC, I am sure, and that you’re not surrounded by a load of brainwashed cretins.

Don't tell me that you believed Monty's claims that a Brexit rally was an LGBA meeting. You'd better check in the mirror to see if you've got "gullible" written on your forehead.

NotTerfNorCis how was that expressed - did everyone just refuse to join in? What happened?