Gutted that someone I thought might be GC isn't

[pandemuertos]

NC for this.

In my dept at work, we NEVER discuss any of this, but we do talk a lot about books. The other week a young woke colleague brought in a book by someone called Juno Dawson and said something like "it's like a trans Harry Potter, she's really having a go at JKR" in an approving tone. I didn't comment.

Now, another colleague, I've always had my suspicions might be GC, as she's a bit older, very sound of judgement imo and even though we never discuss it, I have always suspected/hoped. Then yesterday she said something on her fb like "I've just finished the Ink Black Heart, she might have some dodgy opinions but wow, the woman cAn write"

And I just feel gutted. I'm tempted to comment (about the book, which I have read, but also about how much I love JKR) but wonder if that will just cause a world of pain for me.

We had some AWFUL training a few months ago (I posted on here at the time but then got it deleted as I was worried it was outing) - but it was the usual stuff- sex assigned at birth, promoted mermaids, the woman even had a link to binders on her own webpage. I complained about it to my boss, and was taken seriously to be fair, but I was gobsmacked that no one else to my knowledge seemed to have an issue with it and just nodded along.

I was listening to an interview between Louise Perry and Julie Bindel the other day where Perry said it was clear, because of recent developments, that the GC side has "won" this "war" but it just doesn't feel that way for me.

I just feel gutted and depressed about it. Just wanting to vent really.

I don’t think anyone in my workplace will admit their feelings openly so I’ll never know if they’re gc or not. Honestly, I’m too scared to say anything incase it’s career limiting.

Criminals are a minority.

Honestly. This is exactly what people mean when they say there is a lack of critical thought.

Just blurting stuff out without thinking.

Actually with all the deeply disturbing details emerging recently of the actions of some police officers (most recently in Wales), I’m beginning to feel very confused about who the criminals often are, and am not so sure if they really are a minority.

OP - after 3 years of thinking I was alone, I've recently connected with a woman at work with the same views as me and together we're starting to challenge some of the policies in our workplace that disadvantage women. Things are definitely changing.
Though I'm afraid I have to say - much as I love JKR - Ink Black Heart should have been cut by 1/3 :-)

I find it hilarious to still see the ‘you are all old and are going to die soon’ posts.

It shows so much about the poster. The only people I have met who fully support the demands of a small minority group who want gender to be prioritised over sex seem to be those with heavy investment in this happening. This includes people wanting their loved ones, or themselves, to have what they demand, people who lack the life experience of a female who has experienced negative sexist discrimination and other oppression all their life, or have and have not understood it, or need to support due to work/relationships
etc or those who view themselves as being ‘kind, tolerant snd loving’ and cannot critically think through the full ramifications of the changes demanded.

Once you strip it down, very few people believe that human beings can change sex, and that males magically lose their male propensity to commit sex crime with trans declarations, and that males lose their advantages with hormone treatment and should compete in female sports categories.

This is Susie Green's TED talk.
www.ted.com/talks/susie_green_transgender_a_mother_s_story?language=en

In it she says her son preferred playing with 'girly' toys and her husband was so concerned that he was gay that she took him to Thailand and on his 16th birthday he had his penis removed. The Thais were so concerned that they changed the law after that, so that people had to be 18 before they could have surgery. Green's son doesn't appear to have had much say in it. It's the clearest case of transing the gay away that we have on record, I think, and the clearest example of how embedded homophobia is in this movement.

Read Annabel Shrier's book Irreversible Damage for more on the awful damage being done to healthy young bodies.

For an account of how all this started, who's behind it and how we got to where we are read Trans by Helen Joyce. I've ordered both of them from my local library and that's a good thing to do, because other readers will see it/ find it.

This is a good starting point for those who don't understand what GC or gender ideology are about:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

If 'gender criticals' were not winning, there would be no need to come onto Mumsnet and patrol our words.

Yes I have read it and her umpteen tweets related to trans people. Can I also say as a side note that to say women are being silenced is really mental when all I hear in mainstream news are people like jk rowling. Yet I never see many trans people get interviewed or their positions make mainstream news like the times etc.
Anyway the thing is yes she was a victim of domestic abuse by men but trans women are not men, there was a poster on here a few comments up that said her trans woman friend got load of abuse nasty of men.
They don’t have anything in common with that persons friend because that persons friend is not now presenting as a man. Therefore I found to lump in we should be scared of trans women de facto because they may be abusers is wrong.
that is my opinion.
now if JK rowling had just stood with saying that I wouldn’t have to much of an issue even though I disagree but now she has gone in and done tirade of tweets including retweeting people like Matt Walsh who is no bloody feminist and it feels like it’s a targeted campaign against trans people .
now bear in mind I am not trans that’s my views only as you did ask

trans women are not men

What is it that makes a 'trans woman' change from a man to a not a man?

Is it words, clothes, hair, drugs, surgery or do they actually never stop being a man because not one sperm provider has ever become an egg provider, like, ever. So it must be something else, so what is it?

Wasn’t a brexit rally when they wore T-shirts with lgb alliance on not the pic I saw any way

Thanks Pattihews, it is a good call to order those books from the library rather than buy them. The money is better spent in the gardens anyway!

These boards have really helped me to clarify my GC views. For me , if you understand that sex is real and immutable, and that there are good reasons for division by sex for some spaces/services/competitions, then GC isn’t a set of beliefs, it’s just the very obvious conclusion.

I described a trans belief, based on the TED talk you’ve kindly linked. Freespirit explained that was not in line with her view, rather it was more about inherent feelings. I was hoping that Freespirit could give me some insight into the ‘inherent feelings’ she described. Still don’t understand that. Honestly never seen any explanation which makes any sense. I live in hope because there obviously are people who truly believe they are transwomen, and that that somehow makes them actual women. I ask in the most open, enquiring spirit possible - why?

Yes crinimals are a minority but we don’t say for instance I use these as examples not my feelings. We don’t ban fat people from bakers because they may like cakes etc or we don’t ban women from being with kids or men because a few may be oeodophiles yet many are saying because some might be dodgy that are pretending to be trans women a few. We should stop trans women who have been using toilets for decades in their gender now can’t use womens toilets etc for example

Thanks I am a bit busy but I promise I will watch the issue I have sure there may be bad stories but it’s like operations no one says right can’t have such and such when maybe a few die having said operation but many don’t. All I am saying is that there are genuine trans kids to but many discount that obviously if that lady did what you say that’s wrong

trans women are not men
Well if you don't believe they're men, what do they have in common with women because I can't think of anything. They have far more in common with males(if you don't want to call them men) like physical strength, testosterone levels, likelihood to commit crime (tw commit crimes at male levels) etc. But what do they have in common with women????

I come on to mumsnet because I am a woman I do have a child , I also believe I am a feminist who happens to believe that trans women are women that’s my feeling

My friend is on hrt and her levels are like mine now

“Trans women are not men” you had us going there Free but as no one believes this and along with all the “you’re old & gonna die soon” comments, you’re obviously on the wind up

There are more men that say they are women in jail for murder than there are men who say that they are women actually murdered.

For men who say they are women, there are 3 times as many in jail for sex offences as men who do not say they are women.

The stats relating to murder and sex crimes are pretty damning, and when these are reported the trans community seems more concerned on whether they are misgendered than the actual crimes they commit.

Just this morning YOU were saying how gender reassignment is nothing to do with actually undergoing medical intervention in any form so you are contradicting yourself. Now you're saying that only tw who undergo hormone treatment are the real deal?

Freespirit thank you for engaging, obviously we don’t necessarily agree, but it’s been an interesting morning. I will watch the documentary you suggested. Obviously, not all trans people are TRA’s, not all TRA’s are trans people, and sometimes TRA demands are damaging for trans people as well as women & girls
watch the Susie Green talk when you have time, and the other Mermaids stuff. I think we will all agree that what has been happening to children is indeed, very wrong

we don’t ban women from being with kids or men because a few may be oeodophiles

Are you serious?

Of course we ‘ban’ women and men from being with children who are both their own or where the parents have not given explicit approval.

It is called safeguarding!

I cannot enter my teen’s high school without processes being followed. I could not go away with a group of children without a DBS check.

I also did not allow my child to enter a toilet or changing room without my or my husband’s supervision.

yet many are saying because some might be dodgy that are pretending to be trans women a few. We should stop trans women who have been using toilets for decades in their gender now can’t use womens toilets etc for example

Yes. Because a very rare case of a male using a female toilet has now become a societal expectation and there are many more males wishing to use the female toilet and changing room.

AND the initial reasoning for them being segregated by SEX is still valid today.

Transitioned males still retain male patterns of committing sex crimes.

Only now, some people who are heavily invested in removing boundaries around women and children wish people to ignore that proven fact.

The UK prison statistics do not lie.

Why is that relevant?

Do you honestly believe hormones make a male or female?

I also believe the underlying that there is this element of people that just don’t like people being trans

tell me you have internalised misogy and ageism without telling me…..

We do ban men from woman's toilets tho. And prisons and sport and rape refuges.

We always have. And according to you we still are because 'transwomen aren't men'.

It's not the banning that's changed, it's pretending that their sex isn't real.

Suddenly, any man who wants to access vulnerable women and children can, because people like you don't believe sex exists. Despite never, not even once, being able to explain what it is exactly about a man that makes him a woman.

Give it a go. Describe 'gender'. Not that it doesn't align with sex - actually describe it. It must be easy to describe because kids are supposed to get it.