Gutted that someone I thought might be GC isn't

[pandemuertos]

NC for this.

In my dept at work, we NEVER discuss any of this, but we do talk a lot about books. The other week a young woke colleague brought in a book by someone called Juno Dawson and said something like "it's like a trans Harry Potter, she's really having a go at JKR" in an approving tone. I didn't comment.

Now, another colleague, I've always had my suspicions might be GC, as she's a bit older, very sound of judgement imo and even though we never discuss it, I have always suspected/hoped. Then yesterday she said something on her fb like "I've just finished the Ink Black Heart, she might have some dodgy opinions but wow, the woman cAn write"

And I just feel gutted. I'm tempted to comment (about the book, which I have read, but also about how much I love JKR) but wonder if that will just cause a world of pain for me.

We had some AWFUL training a few months ago (I posted on here at the time but then got it deleted as I was worried it was outing) - but it was the usual stuff- sex assigned at birth, promoted mermaids, the woman even had a link to binders on her own webpage. I complained about it to my boss, and was taken seriously to be fair, but I was gobsmacked that no one else to my knowledge seemed to have an issue with it and just nodded along.

I was listening to an interview between Louise Perry and Julie Bindel the other day where Perry said it was clear, because of recent developments, that the GC side has "won" this "war" but it just doesn't feel that way for me.

I just feel gutted and depressed about it. Just wanting to vent really.

I know right.

Some bigotry is clearly acceptable to some people eh?

The "die off soon" comment was completely out of order. Shameful.

"trans people are okay" this is honestly the level of your discussion @Freespirit42??

We are discussing the erosion of womens' rights and a child medical scandal.

Yeah I’m sure many of you do you think that but on the scale of that I also believe the underlying that there is this element of people that just don’t like people being trans they don’t accept it they won’t say the right pronouns and how does that affect you saying the right pronouns to people , i’ve never understood why people are so rude towards people that are trans-.
so I am sure there are well-meaning people that think they are fighting for women’s rights of the children’s rights but there are also a lot of people that hate people that are trans

Barnybrown
I cannot make sense of you reply at all - no idea what you mean. But you could stop being so rude and patronising - “bless”.
I wasn’t being rude I was saying I understand

Oh, look, the derailer is changing the meanings of words.

This is how I see it the Conservatives soon will not ever get into power because their base is dying off is that wrong with me to say that no does that mean that I’m wishing people to die no but I am simply stating a fact that the younger people do not align with a lot of these people on the right

Op - do you have children? Or plan to?

I meant bless as in I feel sorry for her that she doesn’t feel like she can have an opinion without being attacked by gender critical people all the time. You stop putting words in my mouth

@Oddieconvert yes I have dc not sure why that is relevant?

Yabu to think that you are alone.
about 99% of the country are gender critical and the people who aren’t are either nut jobs,, desperate to be on the right side of history / part of ‘be kind’ or think that all trans people are fully transitioned surgically.

but as a previous poster said there are a wide range of views on the issue even on the same side of the debate.

I’m on the GC side. I believe that people should dress how they like and gender non conformity should be celebrated. I also believe that peoples sex doesn’t make a difference in a lot of areas but in those where it does people must be treated according to their birth sex. People should not be discriminated against for being trans but that should take the form of being treated the same as anyone else of their sex.

lots of people who are pro trans rights suddenly change their tune when they realise it means males in female sports and prisons.

Ref to the OP didn't the colleague say good writing, dodgy opinions. Isn't that indicating where she stands. I would take it as an invitation to talk about the subject more openly with her.

Because what wouldbe your response of their view on this issue was not identical to yours?

@Barnybrown i think it’s because this debate is much more pervasive that the ‘few trans people you know not affecting things like womens sports’.

Gender Ideology is a ‘science denying’ new world order. It has the ability to turn the world on its head if it is written into law and waved through by our institutions.

The deep rooted implications at a societal level are immense once you dig into to them.

Once you understand this you understand why this is so important to so many people that we don’t let this new belief system infiltrate law making and safeguarding.

Denying biological sex and letting gender feelings trump it will impact so many people badly. And many of them disadvantaged women and children.

i thought the latest polling showed that 18-28 year olds were the most intolerant and illiberal of all??

Keep posting, @Freespirit42 You’re doing a great job 😏

@Gymrabbit i would hazard a guess that the vast vast majority of GC people would share the same views.

Freespirit I think lots of GC people have no problem with trans people, but do have a problem with the erosion of rights and safeguarding for women and girls. You may be right that there are extremists on both sides - which is why the very reasonable ‘third space’ suggestions got shot down, maybe by trans extremists? It’s right that we can’t just ignore the needs of transpeople, but it’s also right that we can’t ignore women’s needs or safeguarding

To get back to OP’s post, it is clear that this needs open, honest discussion, and it’s a problem that people such as OP’s colleague don’t feel confident to express & discuss their opinions, whatever they might be

By ‘debating lives’ do you mean debating how the accommodations for them to live as they wish should be made without harming females?

Yep, no debate and no platforming has been used to silence women for years -

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-should-stay-out-of-trans-rights-war-xcz25nhdt
www.essex.ac.uk/blog/posts/2021/05/17/review-of-two-events-with-external-speakers

This is the first time in history one group (trans people - let’s face it - majority white men) has tried to assert its rights by REMOVING the rights of another group (women).

And interestingly it is the historic OPPRESSORS of that group (white men) trying to take the rights of the historic OPPRESSED (women).

And it is extraordinary that many people seem to think that is fine and is waving it through.

You must have little regard for truth telling as a value if you can’t understand why many people have a problem with being forced to lie, such that you end up redefining it as ‘hate’ because you can’t get your head round it otherwise.
Sure there are people that hate trans people and this is not ok. My transwoman friend was scared to go out on a Saturday night because of the abuse from drunk men. But if you think thoughtful feminist gender non conforming women refusing to use preferred pronouns has anything to do with hate you are missing the point by a country mile.

It’s why republicans didn’t do that well more youth are on the right side, lgb alliance pictures very old people it’s gonna die off soon.

Republicans in the US didn't do that well DESPITE the Democrats official trans policies. People primarily voted for Democrats due to abortion, to protect democracy and because Trump was championing conspiracy nut jobs. Polling shows that people don't support the T like they do the LGB. Biden may be an idiot about Dylan Mulvaney but he passed a lot of bills and signed a lot of executive orders that helped low income and middle class Americans make it through the shut downs and not lose their homes and not have to pay their loans right away. American politics is far more complicated than you suggest.

Oh and please cut the ‘go and meet trans people’. Many posters on these boards have people they love and people who are in their everyday lives who are trans.

’Meeting’ trans people doesn’t miraculously mean that people will support the demanded changes to government policy and law.

Strangely enough, having trans people in my life has meant that I will fight even harder for ALL female people to have the protections they need and their rights protected. And that includes female people who are trans.

It doesn’t mean that I look at them and believe they can ever change sex, or that males should ever be allowed to access female single sex spaces or to claim provisions set up to progress female people to overcome negative sexist discrimination.

More intolerant than the generation below as well as those above?
That would figure as my kids are just too young to be in that bracket and have a more nuanced view than the TRA posters on here.

People don’t have the nuance to understand that the Trump position is to reject all minority groups such as LGB, migrants, ethnic minorities, disabled people etc.

And now they have pushed the T into this. So therefore their conclusion is that rejecting the T is a right wing position.

That is not digging deep enough. The T is trying to assert its rights by TAKING AWAY the rights of another minority group - WOMEN. So to say that T people should be able to live their lives safely and with respect but WITHOUT removing the rights of another minority group - WOMEN - is not a right wing Trump position.

Looking after and balancing the rights of ALL minority groups is a LEFT WING position and actually to support a group that is demanding the rights of another is actually the right wing individualist view.

Sigh

People have believed this for ever. Corbyns Youth Quake......

Reminds me of the last part of the Tracey Ullman woke support group sketch....

I don't vote Tory, but I think I'll concentrate on labour policy rather than waiting for people to "die off"