Eddy Izzard uses ladies loo in Sheffield.

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

Jean Hatchett article on Eddy Izzard attending a Labour Sheffield fundraiser, uses women's toilets, run up to his election as a candidate, uses women's toilets while there.

thecritic.co.uk/eddie-izzard-uses-the-ladies-loo-in-sheffield/

Because every single woman I spoke to that day objected. Every single one. And their partners.
Because I have eyes and ears.
We object. We say no.

Also, re Julie. There was an incident with a person called Cathy Brennan (see story). So why should Julie put herself at risk? I have also attached two of Brennan's tweets. One, a tweet post incident, and the other, a previous tweet, just to demonstrate why we are scared.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/feminist-writer-julie-bindel-claims-16387130

Why should we listen to anyone who thinks consent is something you can assume?

And presumably thinks there is a certain number of women whose consent doesn't matter?

What has such a person got to offer the conversation?

What's the acceptable number of females excluded from female (supposedly inclusive) before saying no to a male in there?

The job of the female only space is to be accessible to and inclusive of all females.

I've got to say, I find most if you on this thread unreasonable and aggressive in your constant insistence on twisting people's words to further their own agenda. It's gaslighting, bullying behaviour. The majority of you are not prepared to have a reasoned and intelligent conversation without accusing another females of being in the wrong camp and shouting them down with their angry, unreasonable behaviour. Once any of you realise that this growing situation of biological males wanting to impose themselves in what should be biologically female-only places is a worldwide SOCIETY situation and that at some point there will have to be a 'solution', then maybe we could have an adult exchange but I won't hold my breathe.

None of you know my life, what dangerous situations I've been placed in, what abuse and danger I've ever encountered or endured so you can all fuck off implying I'm somehow not supportive of this cause or I'm trying to imply its a female problem, all that I'm advocating for sexual predators' rights or that I'm suggesting women should somehow compromise to accommodate them.

The 'agenda being furthered' here is to retain accessible spaces for the inclusion of all females.

That's not exactly the height of wickedness and unreasonability to anyone with a grip, is it?

How dare you accuse me of being an apologist for rape? I have been the victim of sexual abuse, and my daughter raped. Both of these incidents happened in our own homes. The insulting reaction which my comments drew just confirmed my disappointed belief that Mumsnet is little more than a self-congratulatory echo chamber filled with people not willing or able to draw the logical conclusions from the arguments they themselves propose. Have mixed sex toilets alongside those for men and women. Have infinite numbers of toilets in every town in the land. Prevent transwomen from using single sex womens toilets. This entire discussion is just a sideshow designed and stoked by right wing media to prevent women from focussing on things that really matter. Child abuse in the home. Rape that goes unreported because of the horrific inadequacy of the judicial system to provide redress. Domestic violence. The gender pay gap. Stop arguing about trans people and focus on something that matters. You all clearly have eloquent voices. Don't get brainwashed into thinking that othering trans people is doing anything other than silencing your voices on issues that really matter.

@ImherewithBoudica

The 'agenda being furthered' here is to retain accessible spaces for the inclusion of all females.

That's not exactly the height of wickedness and unreasonability to anyone with a grip, is it?

And once again, for the terminally thick, I'm wholeheartedly with the 'cause' of stopping biological males usinh biological female places. I've said it over and over again. Not one person has bothered to acknowledge that part if my original post. Not one fucking person.

The 'agenda' I'm talking about, if you'll so kindly read the post again, is people deliberately misinterpreting and twisting other people's words as an excuse to jump down their throats. For example, I used the word 'solution' - which apparently is an incomprehensible and disgusting word on here - and for 48 hours straight it's been used as a stick to beat me with, being told I'm naive at best to insisting that I think only females should be responsible for it, that I'm suggesting that women should shut up, put up, compromise and put themselves in danger. At no point did I say or imply any if this. All because nobody can be arsed to take a breather from their self-righteousness long enough to read a paragraph properly. Any why? cos they don't want to acknowledge that someone is entitled to ask a question on here and be paid the respect of an intelligent response or afford them the opportunity to have an actual adult conversation.

So off you pop @ImherewithBoudica, no need to bother with a reply because we both know it won't have anything to do with what I've actually said, just you're warped interpretation of what nasty thing you'd prefer to think I'm saying

This is a load of rubbish, all these matters are discussed here and more. You may want to look at the feminism board however as this is the one corner where the TQ+ political issues are discussed and ways considered to prevent women being excluded from equality of access to services and resources in order for male people to have a range of services to take their preferred choice for.

It's sexism on crack. It Is enabling an agenda in which women are suffering, including rapes and then a lack of rape crisis services. These are uncomfortable facts. Denying them doesn't make them go away or help those women.

How dare you accuse me of being an apologist for rape?You said that we don't need safeguards because rape happens anyway."If men wanted to attack women in women's toilets, they would go ahead and do so and not stop to apply lipstick and heels before they did so."Your words. I'm calling that out, just like I and others called out your offensive, ignorant and arguably homophobic comparison of women defending their rights and spaces to those who would deny basic family and marriage rights to the people. We also criticised your shitty rhetoric, if you remember. From "just sayin' peeps!" to the pretentious "subscribing to a narrative...""Rape apologist" are your words, not mine. But if that's where your mind goes when you see the logical conclusion of your call to erode safeguards and erase women, well...I suppose ranting at me is one reaction you could choose, but I'm not sure it has the noble and worthwhile focus that the other 99% of your post claims to be calling for.

"Not all men" for most arguments
but
"every woman" for the other arguments.

Got it.

@babarandceleste The insulting reaction which my comments drew just confirmed my disappointed belief that Mumsnet is little more than a self-congratulatory echo chamber filled with people not willing or able to draw the logical conclusions from the arguments they themselves propose

👏This

barbaraandceleste Actually it is the very same shitshow than enables male violence abuse and behaviour. We recognise the links and that we must fight for women, and we are not prepared to be enablers of males. All these battles are crucial in asserting our boundaries, and we are maintaining ours, while fighting on all the front lines of misogyny. We will fight for you and other women before we assist men into breaking down our barriers.

No idea why the paragraphs didn't work.

How dare you accuse me of being an apologist for rape?

You said that we don't need safe spaces because rape happens anyway.

"If men wanted to attack women in women's toilets, they would go ahead and do so and not stop to apply lipstick and heels before they did so."

Your words.

I'm calling that out, just like I and others called out your offensive and ignorant comparison of women defending their rights and spaces to those who would deny basic family and marriage rights to gay people.

"Rape apologist" are your words, not mine. But if that's where your mind goes when you see the logical conclusion of your call to erode safeguards and erase women, well...I suppose ranting at me is one reaction you could choose, but I'm not sure it has the noble and worthwhile focus that the other 99% of your post claims to be calling for.

Don't shoot the messenger, peeps. I'm just sayin'.

@ImherewithBoudica Denying them doesn't make them go away or help those women.

See, perfect example of what I'm saying. Copy and paste where I'm denying absolutely anything, wishing theyd go away or not trying to help women? Anywhere we're I've not been supportive of the 'fight' All because I asked a question you dont like. You're not only twisting my words, you're outright making things up.

You don't know what I do in my own personal 'real' life to support and campaign for women's rights so don't be bringing your fucking superior opinions on here, thinking you're the only one out there doing good

Sounds like there's some "the person who raped me doesn't fit the profile here and this would not have prevented my sexual abuse so this is not an issue of high priority"

I can assure you that you are not alone on this board with that experience but this is very, very much one of those high priority safe guarding issues. We also have to get to all the other issues. But without this one cemented, there is no language for debating the others.

If it walks like a rape apologist and quacks like a rape apologist…

and you don’t want to be mistaken for a rape apologists. maybe, oh, I dunno…

… maybe stop saying stuff like ‘rape happens anyway’?

¯\(ツ)/¯

Men , however they dress , should not use women's toilets, showers or changing rooms. All men know this of course. 99.9% of men - and boys- don't want to use the ladies - absent some emergency. There's not enough women's toilets anyway. All else is noise. Ps I'm a bloke.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter how many women we 'speak for' though does it? Point is that there are any women afraid to speak out, objecting to men in women's spaces and/or traumatised or scared by their presence and those women don't matter to you. Third spaces would hurt no one and cater for everyone and yet the push continues for women to move over and cede our spaces instead, of course we're going to object to that! And it doesn't matter how many of us, the ones who do object fucking matter, however much you wish they didn't.

Yes.

I'm not convinced that eroding women's spaces in public places more emphasis on maintaining them in private.

If your own home isn't safe from predators, what are you supposed to do if there's no public safe space either?

good point Delilah

one woman’s no = a total veto.

We can’t consent for others via a voting system. There is no override available.

I agree 100%

My response was not a rant. I was understandably incensed and triggered by your comments regarding rape. The point being missed is that women's toilets are a side issue. Why don't you all just stop being abusive to those who don't agree with every aspect of your arguments and instead try building a consensus and have a respectful conversation? Admittedly my initial comment was puerile but the majority of my online time is spent on Twitter, home of the terminally daft, like me. Shouting at each other virtually is exhausting no? Belittling others' ability to express themselves as clearly and succinctly as you do is a cheap shot. I apologise for my lack of clarity and 'shitty rhetoric'. My education was wanting. However, the rights of women and our beliefs about society should not be trampled on because we cannot all express ourselves as well as you. Not everyone can construct an argument as well as you but try having a bit of patience.

My comment about 'lipstick and heels' was lazy shorthand for the garb which Eddy Izzard likes to don in 'girl mode'. It is not a uniform which I think represents womanhood. And I wasn't arguing that we don't need safeguards because rape happens anyway. My comment, which was misinterpreted, came from my weary resignation exhaustion after living on this planet for 60 years and seeing the same threats to women's safety continuing ad nauseam, and, therefore, that arguing about who can use a loo or not is a red herring when it comes to ending violence against women. I don't even think it's a good place to start when the internet is continually filled with violent and abusive images of women and girls. I'm not shouting or trying to score points. If I had expressed myself better and used a more appropriate vernacular perhaps I could have taken part in a less heated and more constructive exchange. Apologies and I will leave it at that.

Does anyone links to instances of TW attacking women in women's toilets? Or using spy cameras etc?

I can't find any up to date evidence online and want to be able to share cold, hard facts with the people saying that TW are not a risk to women.