Eddy Izzard uses ladies loo in Sheffield.

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

Jean Hatchett article on Eddy Izzard attending a Labour Sheffield fundraiser, uses women's toilets, run up to his election as a candidate, uses women's toilets while there.

thecritic.co.uk/eddie-izzard-uses-the-ladies-loo-in-sheffield/

The point being missed is that women's toilets are a side issue.

No, that's the point that you want us to think is a side issue. You have tried equating us to homophobes, you have tried telling us that single sex spaces afford no extra safeguards, you have tried patronising us, you have tried accusing us of things we didn't say and you have tried accusing us of being abusive. (Report abusive posts. MNHQ will delete them.)

None of this has convinced us that we shouldn't fight to retain single sex spaces. It may be because we are evil and closed minded and hate trans people. Or it might be because none of your arguments or deflections are very convincing.

I'm sorry that your home wasn't safe but I don't see how it helps to ignore public places becoming less safe.

the majority of my online time is spent on Twitter, home of the terminally daft, like me.

Again, you said it, not me.

Do you think Twitter, home of the 250-character post, is a good place for nuanced discussion? If your skills in rhetoric and self expression are lacking, perhaps you should read something else for a bit. The Internet is a big place.

Cool.

So we’re on the same page now, right?

Most of us here had our own FWR baptism of fire.

I found that being held to a high standard when formulating and phrasing my argument made it worthwhile it in the long run.

I hope you feel similarly, once you’ve settled in a bit barbara!

It’s a bit like learning to draw, once you can do the realistic bit without overthinking you can really enjoy the splashy-abstract sweary bits.

@Amarette Does anyone links to instances of TW attacking women in women's toilets? Or using spy cameras etc?

I can't find any up to date evidence online and want to be able to share cold, hard facts with the people saying that TW are not a risk to women.

So you want to prove everyone wrong but you couldn't be arsed to research the facts and figures for yourself? You want to feel superior by using other people's hard work and commitmrnt

@TheClogLady Cool.

So we’re on the same page now, right?

Most of us here had our own FWR baptism of fire.

I found that being held to a high standard when formulating and phrasing my argument made it worthwhile it in the long run.

I hope you feel similarly, once you’ve settled in a bit barbara!

It’s a bit like learning to draw, once you can do the realistic bit without overthinking you can really enjoy the splashy-abstract sweary bits

How patronising and condescending.

Patronising and condescending is one of those bellwether thingies.

if you feel patronised it’s probably a self esteem issue.

happy to help!

How rude. I was hoping that some of the amazing women of Mumsnet had links to evidence that I could use to show that TW are a potential danger to women and girls. What is wrong with women supporting each other?

Here you go:

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

There are loads of threads - search for "never happens", @Amarette .
Here's one example: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4568401-but-it-never-happens-sexual-assault-of-teen-in-womens-shelter

Thanks very much. These stats are very stark:

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent
official count of transgender prisoners):
76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%
13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

Just a quick Google throws up several incidents of the thing that never happens, happening.

But that's not the point is it?
TW offend at the same rate at men.

It makes sense from a safety point of view to keep facilities single sex, but self ID is the bigger problem here. And the TRAs all know it. They just don't care.

www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-01-15/sexual-assault-of-10-year-old-sparks-latest-criticism-of-l-a-district-attorneys-policies

www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/october/va-judge-finds-transgender-teen-guilty-of-sexual-assault-in-loudoun-county-high-school-girls-bathroom-case

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

www.kxii.com/content/news/Transgender-woman-allegedly-sexually-assaults-teen-in-walmart-505820451.html

www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/after-alleged-sexual-assault-officials-open-investigation-of-transgender-bathroom-policy/2018/10/09/431e7024-c7fd-11e8-9b1c-a90f1daae309_story.html

www.qcnews.com/news/transgender-woman-convicted-of-sexually-assaulting-10-year-old-girl-in-bathroom/

More to the point, does anyone have any links to instances of TW being attacked in male toilets? Because while I can find evidence of women or girls having been assaulted or filmed/photographed without their consent by men in women's toilets and changing rooms, I'm struggling to find the equivalent actual evidence (court case reports and the like) of TW being victims of men in their single-sex spaces. Since we keep being told that TW safety is the reason they need us to budge up in the Ladies, I would have expected to be buried under a landslide of verifiable reports to back up this claim but it's proving tricky to find.

I mean, I'm genuinely delighted if TW are actually safer in the men's spaces than women are in their now-mixed ones, both for the TW themselves and for women, because it means we can put this narrative that TW need our spaces for their safety to rest and everyone can go back to using the toilets of their birth sex.

Self ID eh? Great idea
twitter.com/johnt0709/status/1347625787730649089?s=20&t=xz-pkyFqLTeltqPS-EyhrQ

@TheClogLady Patronising and condescending is one of those bellwether thingies.

if you feel patronised it’s probably a self esteem issue.

happy to help!

Just to clarify, you know, for those of us who lack self-esteem - is the context in which you're using the term bellwether?
'Use the word bellwether to indicate someone or something that takes the lead in a group or movement. Literally, a bellwether is a sheep (often wearing a bell) that leads a herd'

Are you our lead sheep @TheClogLady? You clang and lead the way, you intellectually superior being

More to the point, does anyone have any links to instances of TW being attacked in male toilets?

That really does seem like one of those things that genuinely "never happens".

I'm sure the incident rate won't be totally zero - it's a big wide world - but it is vanishingly, vanishingly rare. I do not recall seeing any such report in the five years I've been following this, and I think that if it ever happened they'd want to publicise the shit out of it to justify their narrative.

Certainly it's less common than transwomen being attacked in female toilets by by people who think they shouldn't be there (usually men "on behalf" of women), which you see coming up occasionally.

And those stats will have counted MtF transitioners with a GRC in this column:

125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%

due to them having a ‘legal sex’ of female and the GRA giving them the right to never have their transness ever recorded again.

which is mad, innit?

Those stats really are stark.

So basically...subtract the 76 in the first stat from the 125 in the second one.

More than half of the sex offenders in women's prison are in fact... not women.

Those stats really are stark

They are indeed. And what is really quite startling is that some people focus on attacks in toilets. When there is are plenty of other sex crimes that are well known to be carried out by males in female toilets as well.

Like cameras under doors. Like the growing porn genre of transitioned males with either estrogen grown or implant breasts masturbating with their fully functioning penises while females are using the next cubicle. Sometimes you can hear the kids there too.

Despite some females telling the world that ‘females do it too’, I have yet to see that porn category mentioned at all anywhere.

And it doesn’t actually matter. What matters is that those females who don’t want to be in a vulnerable situation of undress at all with a male near by or even to walk out and find one at the basin, have made their voice clear. So many have said ‘no’, and that they would self exclude because of the risk that my focus is on their needs. Not any male’s needs.

Are you our lead sheep TheClogLady? You clang and lead the way, you intellectually superior being

sure, I can be the Dolly to your Troll-y.

I think a quick read of posts on this thread will speedily evidence who's the troll on here - and it ain't TheClogLady.

¯\(ツ)/¯

@MrsOvertonsWindow where did I call her a troll? Again, someone blatantly making things up about other posts that are just not true. Hope that bandwagon takes you were you want to go

Best response yet

How do you know? Have you asked every woman in the country? Why do you think you speak for most women?

This is why we have polling. Look up the numbers some time.