Learning-disabled girls & women must accept men providing intimate care

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

This dreadful account from Transgender Trend is no doubt replicated all over the country as schools / social care / the NHS remove the rights to sex based care for these vulnerable young women, allowing men to provide intimate / personal care. Prioritising (yet again) the demands of this toxic lobby insisting that the safety, privacy and rights of women and girls no longer matter.

Warning - contains information about rape / HIV

www.transgendertrend.com/severely-learning-disabled-girl-sex-based-rights-under-threat/

no, @Adelishious - go and read my post again.

I’m rather good with words and don’t require support to choose ones which suit your peculiar interpretation of <blinks> what rape is.

Fucking hell. You think the only thing women are allowed to consent to is <reads your astonishing post again> rape?

It’s not at all complicated. You ask each person at each interaction and at each point in an intervention for their consent.

it’s basic care. Basic dignity and respect and ensuring they feel safe.

I hope you aren’t a healrhcare professional, @antifascist

I am so angry about these fuckers posting on here with their ridiculous “whataboutery”.

if you have no insight into the needs of our most vulnerable women, if you prioritise the wants of other people over their basic rights, or you use financial limitations as justification to ignore their basic rights, or the challenges of managing a service to deny their basic rights, or you do not think these women matter as much as anyone else, well, then you are stupid. Do these posters not realise how close they are to being like one of these vulnerable women?

I hope they don’t ever have “oh shit” on loop in their head when one day their circumstances change ans it is THEM who is needing help to navigate life, when it is THEIR voice beinf dismissed, when it is THEIR inconvenient basic rights which are pushed aside.

we all might get old, sick or poor. We all might have the unforunate experience of life changing overnight.

Theyll have “oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit” on loop in their head and maybe a vague realisation that when mumsnet thought they were a massive bell end this is why.

fuck them. Selfish, smug fuckers. They’ll learn.

I don't believe that you are genuinely confused at all, I think that's a shitty debate strategy to make it appear that I've said something insensible. Right up there with a tinkly laugh. Just say what you think.

Stealtheatingtunnocks chose to reference a horrific instance of rape and blame it on the "lib fems". That particular rape did not involve a trans woman or really the trans issue at all. It's an example of how conservative policies in the US impact medical care for poor and disabled women in the US and directly created an environment in which this was able to take place.

The trans issue affects girls and women in a multitude of ways and it may be that in the UK conservatives may offer more protections for women but if you choose to bring up the US or the things that happen to women here, supporting conservatives or attacking "lib fems" the direct opposite is true.

This is horrifying

@Boxowine again, no, I didn’t. Go and read my post again.

your misrepresentation of what I is tedious and makes you look like you are posting in bad faith.

for clarity - I said Lib fems should LISTEN to the women who know the worth of our rights because they relied on them or lost them.

i didn’t reference trans because it is not a trans issue. It is a safeguarding issue, and a consent issue and a what-does-a-civilised-society-look-like issue.

trans women are male and so they are as much of a risk as any other male to vulnerable women, sex offending behaviour does not change with transition. Their gender is irrelevant in safeguarding and I am very angry that these peoples feelings are being elevated above the needs of women’s needs. My own personal Nigel is no risk at all to any woman and yet he would not be so rude as to force his company, let alone his cock in a single sex space because he understands and respects womens boundaries. The problem is not the Nice USed To Be Nigels, the problem is that women who cannot consent are being raped because no one cares enough to protect them or provide their dignity.

this is not a USA problem, it is a global problem for all women with learning disabilities. It happens here, there are links further up the thread.

I recommend you try a bit of listening too, it might help your frothing.

Boxowine · Today 15:38
^Boxowine · Today 17:01
How is this the "lib fems" fault?
That woman was raped by a male care giver, not a trans woman. There is no trans connection. Women in the US, even vulnerable ones, do not have the right to same sex care in medical settings.^

This is because women in the US do not have sex based rights. At all. So, many of the worst case scenarios that that will come to pass in UK if self ID is allowed already exist here in the US because the right wing elements here continue to oppress women.

Remember that when you conservative "feminists" join forces with these people.

I had answered:
Right wing US is oppressing women over removing their access to abortion.
But isn’t it the Left Wing (US style) promoting self ID, trans women athletes competing with women, trans women criminals in women’s prisons, children being rushed through dangerous ‘so called ‘Paediatric Gender Care’?

Here the only hope against self-ID are some of the Conservatives.

So I am genuinely confused by your post.

I don't believe that you are genuinely confused at all, I think that's a shitty debate strategy to make it appear that I've said something insensible. Right up there with a tinkly laugh. Just say what you think.

^Stealtheatingtunnocks chose to reference a horrific instance of rape and blame it on the "lib fems". That particular rape did not involve a trans woman or really the trans issue at all. It's an example of how conservative policies in the US impact medical care for poor and disabled women in the US and directly created an environment in which this was able to take place.*

The trans issue affects girls and women in a multitude of ways and it may be that in the UK conservatives may offer more protections for women but if you choose to bring up the US or the things that happen to women here, supporting conservatives or attacking "lib fems" the direct opposite is true

Yes. I was confused by what you said. Because I know that in the US it is right wing Texas banning puberty blockers hormones and surgeries on children, but ‘Left’ wing US states promoting these practices. And Left wing US promoting other practices that take from women in the ways I explained.

Here the official left wing line does not share the concerns of a lot of women on the related to their protections.

If you feel I misunderstood what you had meant then you can explain .
The fact that instead you bring up what you think my laugh is like in a sarcastic tone is extraordinary to me.

@Boxowine could you stop misrepresenting what I said, please?

unless “listen” is one of these words which has changed meaning and now means “blame”.

@ScrollingLeaves
The right wing in the US is oppressing women by attacking their access to abortion but also by limiting access to birth control, labelling birth control as abortifacients, fighting universal healthcare, fighting mandatory maternity leave, fighting subsidized childcare, fighting title nine protections for women reporting rape at their universities, refusing to read the ERA.

I could go on and on but that would be "frothing". At least I'm not "hysterical".

More children are shot and killed in the US each year than you have waiting for treatment at Tavistock. And that doesn't even include the 15,000 children who get shot each year and live.

When you decide you want to go after the liberals in the US you better have a comprehension of what women are actually dealing with here in terms of what is our greatest threat and who are you supporting.

@stealtheatingtunnocks
I am not misrepresenting you at all. You chose to use an example if a woman who was failed by the system in the most devastating way possible and then to tie it to the "lib fems". Don't lay that shit on our doorstep.

If you wanted to make a point about male pattern violence and how vulnerable women are in medical settings you could just as easily have referenced Savile. I'm not so sure you can blame him on the liberals, either.

Interesting response @Boxowine

you are giving me too much credit. I’m not an English A level text that needs interpretation to find the hidden meaning.

I said exactly what I meant, if you choose to wang on about random outrage about things I didn’t say, well, who am I to spoil your fun?

Here, you can have the last word too. Have fun.

@Boxowine
In answer to your last post:

What is happening to U S women and girls at the hands of the Right wing, regarding those aspects you listed, is abhorrent and virtually beyond belief.

But women and children in the U S
are also being badly harmed, by the promotion of ‘gender identity’ and all that entails by the Left wing, who barely even allow the word ‘woman’.

In the U.K. the Left wing in particular see ‘gender identity’ and all the various ramifications of it as trumping material reality and safety of women and children. Even as more people have become aware of the harmful implications, those in charge of the L parties have refused to listen. While Conservatives have been very much a force in driving what turned to be harmful policies, some of them have realised for themselves why some people are so concerned.

I don’t know if Lib Fems are amongst those promoting gender identity as something that trumps material reality either here or in the U S. You may know.

To get back to the thread specifically, I do not agree that a man, however they identify, should be giving unchaperoned intimate care to patients. Men are more likely by far to abuse than women, even though women sometimes abuse too. When it comes to caring positions, being a trans woman does not transform a potentially abusive man into a safer woman. Hence the idea that TWAW is relevant in this context.

This article is interesting:
“The Far Right and Far Left Agree on One Thing; Women Don’t Count.”
www.nytimes.com/2022/07/03/opinion/the-far-right-and-far-left-agree-on-one-thing-women-dont-count.html

Sorry, that link may not work. Try this.
www.nytimes.com/2022/07/03/opinion/the-far-right-and-far-left-agree-on-one-thing-women-dont-count.html?smid=url-share

That last won’t work either. (It came up on this board about a week ago.)Try this.

www.akilligundem.com/the-far-right-and-far-left-agree-on-one-thing-women-dont-count/

I don’t understand this lack of female carers thing. I have worked in care homes for a number of years including recently and it’s 95% women. I can count the number of male Carter’s I have know on 1 hand. Where as the women there’s probably hundreds due to high staff turnovers. So it’s probably actually more like 99%

Is there a labour shortage among women? And so men, any men, must be employed, because this is work that must be done, and no questions asked?

Which gives loopholes and access to men who like to abuse women.

The only safe and dignified answer is to provide women carers for women, and male carers for men. Strictly. Anything else is dehumanisation.
And don't anyone start on any "But who is woman?" bollocks. We all know who are women and who are men.

Use the Care Act, the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act and most importantly, the Human Rights Act - local authorities have a DUTY to meet assessed needs, irrespective of cost or commissioning difficulties.

There is another horrific thread today about a male anaesthetist who, hidden behind the mid-rift sheet of the woman having a Caesarian and apparently monitoring her, had his penis in the unconscious woman’s mouth. Nurses rigged up a camera which caught him. They’d been suspicious.

I forgot to say this was in Brazil.

Must be the lib fems fault.

@Boxowine · Today 01:47
Must be the lib fems fault.

Given your last post, I looked up Liberal Feminism out of interest even though I was not the poster who brought them up as being reprehensible re the subject of this thread. I knew nothing much about them myself.

The quotes below are from Liberal Feminism from Wikipedia.

It says NOW and LWV “regard LGBT rights as a core feminist issue, and vehemently support trans rights and oppose transphobia

and

NOW President Terry O’Neill has affirmed that “trans women are women. trans girls are girls”

Do you think this article is correct?

If it is, then Liberal Feminists may also believe that a male bodied person who is a trans woman should be allowed to take on the role of caring for vulnerable girls and women, and that to suggest otherwise is transphobia.

Liberal feminist organizations are broadly inclusive and thus tend to support LGBT rights in the modern era. For example, the two largest American feminist organizations, the liberal feminist National Organization for Women (NOW) and the League of Women Voters (LWV) both regard LGBT rights as a core feminist issue, and vehemently support trans rights and oppose transphobia.[27] NOW president Terry O'Neill said the struggle against transphobia is a feminist issue.[28] NOW has affirmed that "trans women are women, trans girls are girls.

The article does mention these women, and says that they (along with various other groups of women) are similarly disadvantaged.

<coughs>
I didn’t say Lib fems were reprehensible.

I said they should listen.

am FASCINATED by the “won’t someone think about the poor lib fems?” hijack attempt … when the thread is about the serious issue of vulnerable women being denied their basic rights (resulting in life changing assault and infection and pregnancy) because safeguarding is <checks thread> a bit hard.

stealtheatingtunnocks · Today 22:18

I didn’t say Lib fems were reprehensible.

I said they should listen

I apologise for misrepresenting what you’d said. I couldn’t remember, and wasn’t sure, where Lib Dems came into the question. I was just presuming from Boxowine’s posts that someone must have said something critical.

I agree with what you say
the thread is about the serious issue of vulnerable women being denied their basic rights (resulting in life changing assault and infection and pregnancy) because safeguarding is
a bit hard.