School allowing boy to change in girls changing room secondary school

[Saffy6]

Hi my teenage daughter has told me there is a boy who identifies as a girl changing with the girls in their communal changing room. I have emailed the school who have confirmed this and stated that cases are dealt with individually but in most cases “trans students would have access to the changing room or toilet that corresponds to their gender identity. This approach is supported by the equality act 2010” None of the parents have been informed. Some of the girls are uncomfortable but do not feel they can say anything as they are afraid of being accused of transphobia.

My other daughter in year 9 has 3 girls in her class now identifying as boys (changed name and pronouns). Surely if they want to change in the boys changing rooms they will be allowed to too?

I’ve contacted safe schools alliance and I intend to challenge this policy. My question is, is this the norm? What is your schools policy on transgender kids and changing rooms and has anyone been in a similar position where you challenged this policy and what was the outcome?

Also, many women on these boards, including me, love our husbands, sons and brothers, and really do not think that women or men are better than each other, just different and wonderful in their own ways. Including effeminate boys and butch girls (I have both)

If, however, my effeminate bisexual son decided to identify as a girl tomorrow I would still disagree that he should use female spaces, and he knows that, as we've discussed it. I love him, but would not want him imposing on girls either, as I remember being that age, it was horrible enough as it was without this extra angle!

Thanks Lk. These kinds of posts make me see the issue in a slightly different late. I think I'm super sensitive as I work witj young people and see them in front of me every day, as opposed to statistics.

You're welcome, it seemed we were on the same side, really

I think these boards can seem harsh, but it's because they're quite often under attack trolls and quote-seekers.

But the women here really are coming from a good place, most have children or work with them. Or have history of working with abused women and families. So a bit hard bitten and no nonsense, which can come across as not caring, but honestly, that's not the case.

Please stick around, all women and all women's opinions are welcome, as are the occasional friendly blokes

This is the problem.

OP hasn't given enough info. The pupil has come home with a story. I've worked with enough teenagers to know that they don't always have insight as teachers don't discuss everything.

A teacher (who? Pupil support? deputy head? head? the head of PE? the class teacher?) has allowed the boy to get changed. DD is uncomfortable and claims others are too (how many? did they discuss this?)

What is the teacher's response?

There lies the problem. the first 2 pages suggested striking and going to the papers.

Personally, I would organise a meeting with the pupil support teacher as per policy. I certainly wouldm't be telling all of the other parents and marching in brandishing the equality act.

People on the internet filled with glee to post about their views on trans are forgetting the impact on this child and incidentally, OP's child.

It's all very well giving it you, go girl, but the repercussions of OP's suggested performance could be significant for her.

Thanks.
I'm getting a right bashing on other threads!

'Personally, I would organise a meeting with the pupil support teacher as per policy. ' - seems like a good idea.

It would appear that policies are school/LA-specific though, which puts everyone in difficult situation.

I believe EHRC are working on the updated school guidance on this issue, meanwhile people are left to struggle on their own. On both sides of the argument

It is difficult. for everyone.

There is nothing difficult abiut expevting a male child to use the facilities fir the males/boys.

The secind we start indulging it we cement the fact that yes the body is wrong and they aren't a proper boy/girl. Even the experts don't believe it's the wrong body.

Its not the wrong body
Its not stereotypes

Yet the diagnostic criteria require 6 out of 8 points to be met and when you remove the ones referring to stereotypes and the body being wrong their are not enough left to meet the criteria .

Perhaps until it can be officially agreed what trans and gender is we should leave well alone as we are clearly doing nore harm.than good.

If we thought that we were right about any of it we wouldn't constantly be putting kids into positions where they cant back out.

And who is all this even for? To validate identities if adult males because without trans children we would realise it was predominantly a middle aged adult male thing. What have these children got in common with these adults?

There has never been an explanation that doesn't involve stereotypes and parents thinking their kid might be gay (at 2)

Brain scans
Blood tests
Genetic tests etc all show nothing.

The brain is made out if the same material as everything else when the cells xx or xy depending on what sperm reached the egg. If it was some cellular mutation then where are all the wrong arms or wrong toes attached to the bodies.

No child has the wrong body. They have their body.

And we certainly need to stop with this attitude that we are only allowed stuff that we are legally entitled to if we are nice enough, kind enough, considerate enough and solve all the problems fir eveeyone else first.

No.

Its perfectly legal for the school to allow single sex changing rooms.

They aren't just fir nice girls. The biggest rudest pain in the arse gets that right too.

Solving the changing issue is not the ops job. She doesn't owe this other child anything ajd she doesn't have to bail put the school by coming up with a solution for a problem they caused

No is sufficient. No the girls do jot consent to changing in front of males.

The rest. Well the school got themselves into this mess they can get themselves out of it and if they have to say no to the male.child so be it.

That child is not best served by being lied to about their body..that's how abuse happens.

Absolutely Scully.
This is a simple fix, follow the law. And the school does need to be reminded about its duty to follow the Equality Act 2010 for gender reassignment and sex. I discretely spoke to some other parents in advance of sending my letter so I could use their support if the school did not clarify. I agree there is no need to fly off to the press in this instance. I used the child's new name in the initial email and acknowledged that I knew they could not talk about individuals so I was asking general questions. For all I know the boy could have used the female changing rooms without permission this is why I named him in the original email.

If the school refuse to uphold the Equality Act then getting more parents involved has to the next step. I included Ofsted and Safe Schools Alliance in my emails/complaint to have that backing too.
We trust school with our children all day, parents and carers should trust they are getting basic safeguarding right.
Of course the boy has rights, but the right to use the girls changing room is not one of them. As I said previously the boy has now left the school. We don't know why but I don't believe in coincidences. That is unfortunate but I can't allow myself to feel guilty about it even though society has conditioned me to put others first and be kind.

The only reason they make it so difficult is to make us all feel sorry for the child in question and for the school fir being in such a difficult position and we as mothers/parents feel awkward about such a problem.

I don't blame them I guess because that's the exact approach of those who do the training. Weaponising self harm amd suicide in order to emotionally blackmail people into placing the validation of identity above all other protected characteristics.

Completely contradictory I might add because if the boys changing rooms were so dangerous then allowing those same boys to identity into.the girls changing room to follow the original kid would be bonkers.

And likewise allowing a female child into a space deemed to dangerous fir another male is also ridiculous.

Amd of course the potential harm inly exists to the trans child if you use the possibility for the same harm occurring towards the other children you get the NAMALT crap.

Infact didnt stone wall say twhre was no jeed for risk assessment unless its abiut the harm to the trans child?

None.of it makes sense at all.

Amd I don't believe you have the ability to be smart enough to become a ceo of an academy chain or a teacher and not ne able to figure that out.

But I'll be delegated I expect fir asking why so many are willing to overlook the obvious and who does it benefit to do so

that's the exact approach of those who do the training. Weaponising self harm amd suicide in order to emotionally blackmail people into placing the validation of identity above all other protected characteristics
This is so true Whatwouldscullydo.
This is finally getting sunlight because the press have started reporting on it. The Denton's playbook showed how important secrecy and lack of democratic accountability has been to a movement determined to remove women's rights and remove some children from normal safeguarding.
So much of the training is done from the perspective of individual trans people telling their sad stories and using them to silence all critical thinking / questions about the implications of their anti women / anti safeguarding demands from an audience.
Women (and countless men) are fed up with it and calling it out for the emotional blackmail that it is. It's why we find new posters to the board frantically telling women that we're wrong for what we say. Despite the fact that so many of us are parents, safeguarding experts, teachers, doctors, scientists etc & have spent lifetimes working with children and researching all this, still posters tell us we're just wrong and unkind. You can see it on this thread.
It is not women who have elevated the wants of individuals over the rights of others and we won't be silenced. I'm not going to target a vulnerable boy who's been led to believe that undressing alongside girls makes him one. But I'm going to make sure that the individuals responsible for putting him there are held to account for their lack of respect for the law & the rights of the girls forced to undress with him - just as the OP is doing.
#nodebate is over.

I think these boards can seem harsh, but it's because they're quite often under attack trolls and quote-seekers

i also think that sometimes people come on the board see a few comments from a poster and then extrapolate those views out to everyone on the board

obviously people are going to go on the defensive if they are accused of hate or erasing transpeople which ive seen on other threads

There was a time Rufus when my female socialisation would kick in with posters offended at discussions on here and I'd want to post soothing sentences reassuring that we don't hate men. Now I see posts calling women hysterical, anti men, prioritising women and all the rest of the word salad used to keep women in our places and I just can't be arsed.
No more pandering 😐

A teacher (who? Pupil support? deputy head? head? the head of PE? the class teacher?) has allowed the boy to get changed. DD is uncomfortable and claims others are too (how many? did they discuss this?)

Are you saying it should come down to the number of girls who are willing to stick their hands up and admit discomfort even though the strong social message in young people's circles is that is bigotry and transphobia?

Even though the law says that sex is a protected characteristic and changing rooms should be single-sex?

Even though safeguarding is about adults saying 'no' so that young people do not have to?

Yes, the boy has been let down by adults but this will not be put right by the girls also being let down. The boy needs to change with the other boys or privately.

The responsibility should not be on the girls here in any way, shape or form.

Also the subtle "claims others are too" which suggests she might be fabricating this or it is really just her is very telling ....

Absolutely mrsoverton

the attacks are just constant and also on this forum (I assume all forums to be honest but I’m not on any others) you get a lot of posters having a pop at stuff no one knew was being discussed

so for example saying about school dinners in the uk and someone pops up to say ‘well you obviously don’t care about children starving in india’ when of course you do…you just didn’t know you had to caveat your uk school dinner comment

and saying you think that male bodied people shouldn’t be in female sport and someone will say that you hate trans people and want them to be erased…you just read it like 😳

I never rise to the ‘You hate men’ comments

just so stupid

if any of the female teachers at the school were at their local gym and a man was in the female communal changing room they would not feel comfortable and complain. Would they be accused of bigotry? No they rightly expect that their changing rooms are separated by biological sex. Changing rooms are not segregated according to how people feel about their bodies and yet I know that the girls at the school definitely feel they do not have a right to question this as they will be accused of being transphobic.

All children have a right to respect and kindness as does this child but there are other children at the school who are now changing gender. If the child decides when he is an adult and capable of making the decision to transition he can legally change sex and use the ladies. The school will have to justify why others can not follow suit. We know that the majority of children revert back to original sex. The sensible option would have been to provide him with a separate space to change.

I’ve chased the school. No response. I really wanted to give the school the opportunity to deal with the matter but think I will have to escalate to a formal complaint.

Would the lovely lady who has offered to provide the wording she helped put together re schools policy possibly pm me if that’s possible? I will suggest alternatives to their current policy.

if any of the female teachers at the school were at their local gym and a man was in the female communal changing room they would not feel comfortable and complain. Would they be accused of bigotry? No they rightly expect that their changing rooms are separated by biological sex.

Hate to break it to you Saffy, but they probably would be accused of bigotry.

Oh god then we are in serious trouble.

It's not about being smart enough.

Or being kind (your reference to the namalt issue is tenuous).

Being a member of school staff means understanding your responsibility to everyone. Again, I make the point that posting on MN is all fine and good but good luck keeping a job in teaching if you're marching about telling children they're being lied to and not in the wrong body.

The wrong body is no longer a thing you realise that?

Its transphobic to say kids are in the wrong body.

I've absolutely no idea how you get any of this frm my post.

I have said numerous times i don't agree with mixed spaces.

However, the post you've randomly quoted was q point to another poster whee we were discussing that there is little context to this story, who OP has spoken to and who made the decision.

Incidentally most of the first.pqhe suggest that the girls should all go on strike or complain. You can't have it both ways.

See the experts say so