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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

School allowing boy to change in girls changing room secondary school

324 replies

Saffy6 · 23/04/2022 11:43

Hi my teenage daughter has told me there is a boy who identifies as a girl changing with the girls in their communal changing room. I have emailed the school who have confirmed this and stated that cases are dealt with individually but in most cases “trans students would have access to the changing room or toilet that corresponds to their gender identity. This approach is supported by the equality act 2010” None of the parents have been informed. Some of the girls are uncomfortable but do not feel they can say anything as they are afraid of being accused of transphobia.

My other daughter in year 9 has 3 girls in her class now identifying as boys (changed name and pronouns). Surely if they want to change in the boys changing rooms they will be allowed to too?

I’ve contacted safe schools alliance and I intend to challenge this policy. My question is, is this the norm? What is your schools policy on transgender kids and changing rooms and has anyone been in a similar position where you challenged this policy and what was the outcome?

OP posts:
RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:55

I got my period when i was ten, swiftly followed by huge boobs, hairy pits, the works. I was a very young ten when this happened, very happy to be and stay a kid. There were at least 2 other girls in the same boat as me

yes

when dd developed boobs in junior school she was allowed to change (with a few other girls) in the girls toilets

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/04/2022 22:56

I think bunbury would admire your self control

I hope so. I fear she would at least tsk at me.

Hutchy16 · 28/04/2022 22:56

Wow…not read all of the responses so if I missed something important sorry.

but this is not ok…how can a biological female be required to change with a biological male, and why haven’t the parents been informed.

any pupil identifying as a different gender than they were assigned should have a neutral space to change, for their protection and for the cis-gendered pupils who would have to change amongst them.

the school are nuts - they have to ensure the student is included, but not to the detriment of others

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:57

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/04/2022 22:53

It's just so... desperate. Right, sorry Bunbury I'm sitting on my hands now.

Is there a word for people who hate men? I mean I know there's misogyny, but are you just so superior as a woman you've deleted that as well?

thanks for sitting on your hands. The OP will miss your input.Oh wait. You didn't give her advice. you just jumped straight on to make 12 year old boys collateral i your war against big horrible men.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/04/2022 22:58

I got my period when i was ten, swiftly followed by huge boobs, hairy pits, the works. I was a very young ten when this happened, very happy to be and stay a kid. There were at least 2 other girls in the same boat as me

Yes, both my niece and DSD are the same.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:59

Absurdle · 28/04/2022 22:55

I see. So you accept the following propositions and do not require proof of them:

-males are more dangerous than females
-male on female sexual assaults occur frequently in schools

but you cannot extrapolate from the above to this:

-males in female changing rooms in schools are a safeguarding risk

And in fact you demand that a mass experiment of allowing males into female changing rooms in schools be done so that data can be collected on this specific scenario so that you, personally can be convinced it’s a bad idea.

No, that won’t be happening. Perhaps you might want to step out of the discussion till you learn joined up thinking.

Pathetic.

No, I would like (not demand, cause I'm not entitled ) evidence and proof since every single word you've just written is total nonsense.

It was a great discussion until you guys jumped in. It must be fun living in MN world where trans people are not real people.

MissPollysFitDolly · 28/04/2022 22:59

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou
feminism is about equality. Equality.
Not I'M A GIRL AND THEREFORE I'M BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.
--

Oh dear, who suggested that?!

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:59

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:55

I got my period when i was ten, swiftly followed by huge boobs, hairy pits, the works. I was a very young ten when this happened, very happy to be and stay a kid. There were at least 2 other girls in the same boat as me

yes

when dd developed boobs in junior school she was allowed to change (with a few other girls) in the girls toilets

and this has got to do with....?

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 23:00

MissPollysFitDolly · 28/04/2022 22:59

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou
feminism is about equality. Equality.
Not I'M A GIRL AND THEREFORE I'M BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.
--

Oh dear, who suggested that?!

Two posters above.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 23:03

they have to ensure the student is included, but not to the detriment of others

absolutely

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 23:06

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 23:03

they have to ensure the student is included, but not to the detriment of others

absolutely

I don't disagree.

FemaleAndLearning · 28/04/2022 23:09

OP do message me if you want help on this. I've successfully got my school to state that no biological males are allowed in the biological female toilets or changing rooms. The last few pages of discussion make it sound all vey complex but it isn't.
Happy to help you get this resolved quickly.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 23:16

Well thats good femaleandlearning

hopefully you’ll be able to help

Original poster
Saffy6 · 28/04/2022 23:17

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:38

I think if you're going to make as bold a claim that your secondary school daughter is at risk of sexual assault or rape in a changing room (of course by a transgender girl, because that's the risk) then you need to back it up.

Especially if you try to explain that a 12 year old male in gender crisis (who an earlier poster pointed out has zero relevance to sexuality) is in any way more dangerous than a fellow female student who is attracted to females, I'd like to see the evidence.

It is not my job to prove the evidence of other posters. Thanks though.

Show quote history

Where did I say that was the reason ever in my post. I never said the trans child was a dangerous sexual predator. Most of the boys at the school would not be dangerous sexual predators so does that mean we should let boys and girls change together? Each sex deserves privacy from the other especially teenagers who are very shy about their bodies. This is not the social norm and if the school wants to change something so fundamental it should have been discussed openly with parents.

OP posts:
Liveliferun · 28/04/2022 23:27

Women and girls have a right to privacy and dignity as well as safety. We’ve all heard the strawman argument about lesbians before. Why is it some people don’t or refuse to understand - we women and girls do not want to undress with males. End of. Why would you want to do force us to?

Original poster
Saffy6 · 28/04/2022 23:30

FemaleAndLearning · 28/04/2022 23:09

OP do message me if you want help on this. I've successfully got my school to state that no biological males are allowed in the biological female toilets or changing rooms. The last few pages of discussion make it sound all vey complex but it isn't.
Happy to help you get this resolved quickly.

Thank you. I am going to chase the school tomorrow. I had already thought about that. Hopefully I have made them reconsider and will insist that they make a commitment to single sex spaces while also offering children considering changing their sex another space if they do not feel comfortable changing with their biological sex.

OP posts:
FemaleAndLearning · 28/04/2022 23:32

You are doing a great service to all those girls. Hope it goes well.

Feelingoktoday · 28/04/2022 23:39

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:47

Don't think I said any of that.

I asked you to prove where a boy being in a girls changing room in PE statistically is a danger.

Show quote history

Not a danger hopefully. But girls have the right to privacy.

my 17 year old son would hate getting undressed in front of a group of girls. He is so embarrassed about his body at the moment. He would miss PE if he had to do that.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 28/04/2022 23:40

I'm shamelessly placemarking for an update. This is diabolical of the school.

Feelingoktoday · 28/04/2022 23:44

I would not use mixed sex changing rooms - the type with a bench and no cubicles. I’m an adult female. I’m fairly confident about my body. But I would not want to be naked in front of a strange man or a friend. My 17 year old son would die if he had to undress in public. He is embarrassed having to wear swimming shorts on holiday. He lacks body confidence. I would imagine most teens are the same. Why should girls have to get undressed in front of a boy.

334bu · 28/04/2022 23:57

Well done OP. Hope all goes well.

bythere · 29/04/2022 03:59

"Why do people need privacy from the opposite sex?"

The general acceptance that it is an infringement of one's dignity to unwillingly be seen naked or in a compromising position by an aware person of the opposite sex.

aweegc · 29/04/2022 06:05

Glad you're doing this OP.

I was sexually assaulted multiple times at school aged 11&12. By boys only. Also had boys make a hole in the (thin) wall between our changing rooms to spy on us getting changed for PE.

I'm not saying this kid changing with OPs DD is like that, but it has been mentioned that girls aren't threatened by male pupils at that age. We are.

I also can think of two boys who would definitely have tried it on at that age to change with us. Again not saying the kid referred to by the OP is doing that. The idea it's impossible in general at that age though is ludicrous.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/04/2022 08:05

That's dreadful aweegc Flowers

Good luck today OP. As we have seen from the incoherent flailing about on this thread, there are no sound reasons for removing any girl's rights to privacy. The law is on your side as will be the vast majority of parents.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 29/04/2022 08:06

Liveliferun · 28/04/2022 23:27

Women and girls have a right to privacy and dignity as well as safety. We’ve all heard the strawman argument about lesbians before. Why is it some people don’t or refuse to understand - we women and girls do not want to undress with males. End of. Why would you want to do force us to?

You refer it to as a strawman argument because you are fundamentally unable to escape the same old argument of women and girls trumping everyone else.

I have said numerous games on this thread I don't think there should be mixed changing rooms, numerous. So no need for your hysteria about forcing.

What I object to is the instant up in arms when it comes to women. If the child in question was Ops daughter who was being subject to soke or the suggested abuse on this thread by adults, the responses would he different.